By "purpose," I mean biological function. What, if anything does it do that aids human survival?

And by "consciousness," I am referring specifically to the entity that exists within us. What is the difference between you, and a highly intelligent robot that can mimic everything you do perfectly?

I wouldn't mind beating a robot clone of this type to death with a baseball bat. Sure, it could in some sense feel the pain and react accordingly, but there would be no actual entity experiencing that suffering. This entity is what I'm referring to.


I'm actually somewhat of a materialist, and I don't believe in anything spiritual or religious. If I imagine a cube, then this imaginary item is made of nothingness. The cube undoubtedly exists in some sense, but it is not physical.I suppose you could say that the chemicals in my brain that create the thought "are" the cube, but I wouldn't really agree with that.

In the same sense, sentience does exist, at least subjectively (in fact, it IS subjectivity). Sentience may be the result of physical matter, but it is not really physical. Imagine this scenario.

I create a teleporter. It copies your body atom for atom, then kills you. Then it reassembles you body, atom for atom. Even if it is an exact physical replica of you, YOU have still been killed, and you are dead. It will be physically exactly the same, and will act exactly the same, but you will be dead.

Unless you want to say that the teleporter will actually work, and that your sentience will be teleported alive and well in the body made of new atoms. If this were the case, what if the original wasn't killed? Would you experience being in two bodies at once?

It....keeps us awake so we can run from a predator instead of sitting there like a bump on a log?

But we don't need consciousness for that. The brain is a computer, and our computers are hardwired with a "BEAR = RUN" program. Why does there have to be a little "me" experiencing all this for it to work?

Because that little "me" is the person who comes up with the idea for guns and then kills some bears... like a bawss.

Because everything has a personality, for all we know there could be complex animal personalities, we just cant understand them. As to conscious choices vs subconcious behaviour, well, there's a myriad of personal opinions on the hows and whys of what they are. Me personally, I just say that's the way the world turns. :shrug:

I think that even our most complex thoughts are explainable without invoking our consciousnesses.

Quick, name a vegetable! Can you account for why you said carrot instead of celery? Or onion instead of broccoli? You can't. The brain, like the rest of the universe, works in a strictly cause-and-effect way. To say that my consciousness itself somehow creates ideas is absurd, thoughts and decisions come about, and then we are aware of them. It is an illusion that makes you feel that you have the power to carve destiny with your own hands.

Conscious, serves the purpose of being the opposite of unconscious.
The Bear = Run thingy is because of the conscious mind, and through natural instinct.
Like Martyr said it keeps you awake instead of being a bump on a log when the bear comes a hunting.
I look on it as being your whole live, everything you do, say, hear, see, eat, breath etc is a result of your consciousness, the thoughts/feelings/dreams/voice in your head are all results of your sub-conscious. Being the bump on the road is a result of your unConscious state.
When you slip out of Consciousness when confronted by a bear / something aggressive and bound to kill you, I think thats the Conscious' way of putting the person into the safest place possible as while being unconscious you will not be able to feel/see/hear the horror that is facing you.

Unconsciousness is also a defence mechanism in itself as some animals won't eat something they think is already dead (since you look like your dead), but the way we've wrecked animals homes, they'll probably just eat you anyway so its a bit redundant.

Because that's how the brain functions basically. Remember that when looking at things biologically, you're looking at them in reverse. Is consciousness responsible for function? No, but the processes that gave rise to those things also gave rise to consciousness. Evolution doesn't delete things unless they are detrimental, to put it basically. If the same processes that cause our brain to function can also give rise to consciousness, and if consciousness could prove to be beneficial then it can only grow or stay the same, it won't diminish unless there is something causing it to.

That's without getting into the metaphysical stuff, which is kind of boring IMO.

I think the little "me" your talking about is actually the real you, and the majority of the auto pilot stuff is just things you've been conditioned with throughout your life.

You could argue that it's just a biproduct of other processes, but I find that unlikely.

@Papa: By consciousness, I mean the ability to experience experiences. I see no reason why our brain couldn't do pretty much everything it does now, without consciousness involved. Our computers do just fine without it. You can argue that the brain is a lot more complex than computers - but that hardly matters, especially since it probably won't be fact for much longer.

@Apex: The "me" is the real me, but it doesn't make my decisions or do any of that business. It (I) feels like it's making brand new decisions, but really the "computer" aspect of the brain was doing all the work while I sat along for the ride, as a passenger.

It's almost certainly the opposite actually, the auto-pilot stuff is far more essential. Think about it, the little you HAS to be stuff you've been conditioned with, because otherwise how would it know english? Its also important to remember there is actually no you vs the rest of your brain, its all you.


It's not JUST a byproduct, nor is it unlikely. ALL adaptations are byproducts of precious adaptations. Every part of you that is here today is the most important byproduct of something that happened previously.

What do you mean what's the purpose of consciousness? It keep people aware, alert, having their own backs. Or do you mean conscience? As in, right from wrong?

Well, either way they both make us human and alive. Being conscious of your surroundings means you are aware of where you are, know the possible things that can happen, how you can avoid those things, how you can save yourself and even others. Whereas your conscience makes you decipher what's right and wrong to you, right would be saving a school of orphans from a burning bus. Wrong would be dousing the bus in gasoline and walking away.

I suppose I should clarify this in the original post. By "consciousness," I am referring specifically to the entity that exists within us. What is the difference between you, and a highly intelligent robot that can mimic everything you do perfectly?

I wouldn't mind beating a robot clone of this type to death with a baseball bat. Sure, it could in some sense feel the pain and react accordingly, but there would be no actual entity experiencing that suffering. This entity is what I'm referring to.

This may fall into a "religious" area if you are talking about consciousness = soul however going into a philosophical side it's hard to say really. I would suspect a consciousness if a feeling of self-awareness about your surrounding in which can't be duplicated since every person on the planet has a different level/perception of their surroundings. This "level" can't mimic every single person and would only mimic the perception of the person that is programming it. Some will counter-argue that perception is perception there is absolutely no difference at all however again that's where philosophy comes in dictating that there is a difference.

Well, the short answer is: That robot was programmed by someone who has "consciousness", and it can only do what it was programmed to do. So if it is programmed to mimic everything I do, and I commit suicide, then it will commit suicide. But other humans aren't going to commit suicide just because I did, thus ensuring their survival but not the robot's.

why are we seintient? back in the day it really made us more effective hunters, planning ahead and being cleaver really gave us the edge. also humans are social animals, complex societies developed.

Also there is no ai that i'm aware of, robots can probably only do whats in there range of programming

Right here, I said carrot.

And here, I freaked out.


:ahhh:

i said pizza so i am off to carve my destiny right now

No, actually.

I read a story about a guy who took a bullet to the head and lived. Unfortunately, he lost the ability to have emotions in the process. This came with surprising results. He lost any sense of self preservation. He was completely apathetic to all things. He had to be told when to eat, drink, use the restroom or work. When he was told to do something, he did it perfectly, but he wouldn't stop until it was done because he didn't know he had to survive.

At the most basic level, consciousness is what keeps us alive. At a more metaphysical level, it's what makes us human. The latter is boring, though. Let me see if I can find a link to the story.

Try telling that to the grizzly men.

The thing i've always wondered is, If a robot or artificial intelligence developes so much that it feels and understand emotions, who's to say that just because it was programmed to feel this way it hasn't got a conciousness of it's own, a little spark of uniqueness that makes it who it is. It could essentially have a human mind in an electronic body.

Harvey.

Just because I know this guy.. named Harvey, who happens to be a complete vegetable..

As apposed to those bits of me that are a byproduct of of something that as of yet still has to happen

You mean the us, who exist within me

It's a committee :wacko:

When the robot starts feeling bad for [censored] things up, and tries to pin it on the robot next to it by fabricating lies and tampering with evidence.

At which point SKYnet launches globally. :cold:

What is you? How do you know you are there? You think therefore you are, right? What you see and feel and hear and smell and taste are just the stimulation of your sensory/probing devices (eyes, ears, nose, nerves) then processed and interpreted by the brain. Light is just different frequencies of waves yet we perceive/interpret these waves as a 'color' that appears to be part of an object itself, even though there is no color, just a light wave frequency.

Food for thought, but try not to think too much.

I think that my senses are more than just the base experience. For example, when a bell rings, a scientifically minded person may say that the only sound it creates are the sound waves that resonate through the air, and that they trigger the mechanics within the ear.

However, there's another part of the sound that as far as I know, can't be explained scientifically in any way. And that is my perception of the sound. My experience of hearing the bell ring can't really be broken down into anything, the experience itself is completely unique.

That's kind of what I was explaining. The outside world is completely different than what we see. But we still experience it as our reality. Like I said, there is no color blue, red, yellow, etc. There is only the perception of it. It's an experience, and it's your experience. You are aware of your existence, that is your consciousness.

Not trying to get too deep here. I'm afraid of crossing the line of mysticism.

Morality.

It helps us determine moral rights and wrongs, and through that determination and procreation, theoretically, we should be able to eventually become morally better as a society. The problem is, my morals are not your morals, and vice versa