Why are so many NPC's hostile toward you for NO REASON WHATS : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Personally, I am just as disappointed with how bad guys always have empty titles like "necromancer" or "lowlife". Oblivion did it too, and sure its a convenient way to throw a "kill me" sticker on someone, but when you do that you remove all sense of that character being a real person with a history and a life in the game world. It immediately tells me this person is non interactive, a dummy generated out of thin air to improve my combat skills instead of a person making a hard life for himself out in the wilderness (or wherever). It detracts from immersion, and I can't see why you would want to do that when you put so much effort into creating it through other means (like scripted bad guy conversations you can listen in on, which I really like). Name generators don't seem that difficult to make...

Morrowind basically had everyone in the game named, I do kind of like it better when they have a generic name so I know its safe to lop his head off without any worries at all, but more named characters in dungeons would be nice I guess.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:45 pm

There needs to be a better mechanic for NPC hostility. I dont like that bandits are always hostile and stuff. In Oblivion you could boost your personality high up and they would become non-aggressive and you could talk to them.

I think there should be factors towards NPC aggression:

1) Speech/Personality level (I think speech should be renamed personality so it has an actual function!)

2) Crime level (a known criminal character would be more hated by "good" NPCs and more accepted by enemy NPCs

3) Game decisions--choosing to support certain factions

4) Dialogue and interaction (Illegal mages might ask "Are you here to turn us in?" and you can say no, yes, or choose to join them or something)

I wish you could be an outlaw too.

This.

I remember busting into a Vampire Crypt in both Oblivion and Morrowind, and because my speech was at 100, they all were like "sup?" instead of "DIE FETCHER!" BUT...THE MOMENT YOU UN-SHEATHED your weapon, because people don't like it when you have your weapon out...the disposition would drop, and they would attack...

Kind of [censored] that you're still at what? 90 Disposition with you, but still think that 10 points means:

Unsheathed weapon: HES GOING TO KILL ME ZOH-MA-GAWD! HE MUST BE DESTROYED!
Sheath Weapon-Hey best buddy old friend old pal old buddy old pal!

BUT...I do like the fact Outside Forts and Caves...Even Forsworn will say; "That's far enough!" And warn you..."Hey...Outsider...you're on enemy territory! Don't come closer or...Well...We will attack!"

Other problem I have is...Mages. So all the mages will attack you? I understand Necromancer, but an Adept Frost Mage...is really just going to up and Destroy me just for being near?
I'm sorry, Aren't the Telvanni pretty much Gone/Destroyed? lol

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:08 pm

Sorry, I couldn't hear you completely avoiding my questions with all those gurgling sounds your making. Mind actually making a point instead of just stating a blind observation with no evidence to back up your claims? I suppose you think Radiant AI actually makes the game world seem "real" too, when it's actually been proven that NPCs are still scripted and follow the exact same paths day in and day out.

Radiant AI is realistic from a technological viewpoint that developers can create a generic NPC and select a certain kind of personality (e.g. "merchant", thief") and the AI would work out a routine (where to path/where to sleep/when to sit at the tavern) without having a specific waypoint manually plotted out.

You're just nitpicking.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Every random bandit or thug should have a name and background when all you can do is mow them down? Seems pointless to me.

And that's Bethesda's fault for not expanding Speechcraft beyond townsfolk, or allow any real non-lethal outcomes outside brawls and scripted events.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:52 pm

Sorry, I couldn't hear you completely avoiding my questions with all those gurgling sounds your making. Mind actually making a point instead of just stating a blind observation with no evidence to back up your claims? I suppose you think Radiant AI actually makes the game world seem "real" too, when it's actually been proven that NPCs are still scripted and follow the exact same paths day in and day out.

I think your response just made my point for me...at least the second half.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:51 pm

to be fair, every RPG has this problem, its only really noticeable in skyrim because beth actually made efforts to make hostiles more human (see: the uncanny valley effect). they took a very good step in the right direction with them warning you away; that right there is enough for me, all things considered. everyone isnt hostile towards you for no reason, they just understandably assume you killed their guard and are hostile to them.

adventurers and prisoners and the like have no excuse however; the whole point of putting them in dungeons alongside bandits and necromancers is to make dungeons more believable by showing that you arent the only one who ever runs afoul of these bad people; as in having some sane, town NPC like people in the dungeon. if your going to make them hostile, then why not just have them be more bandits instead of bringing up the question of why people who should be scared/happy/confused to see me are always just murderous? the falmer prisoners in blackreach i can understand though; if i was dragged into the depths of the earth to work for blind shroom addict goblin monsters for what i assume to be a long time, i would probably think any normal human(oid) i see clad in shining armor is a figment of my insane imagination and attack it in a fit of angry defiance against my crazy, lonely mind :ahhh:

.

» Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:36 am

Yeah, I much prefer MAGICALLY knowing the name of this guy tryint to kill me, WHO I NEVER EVEN HEARD OF BEFORE, OR TALKED TO

Exactly my thoughts. The point is that he or she attacks you. Who cares about their backstory? You can assume their backstory by the name given to them.
Necromancer: Guy crazy about dead people and power
Bandit: Man that grew up with the wrong crowd or has financial issues willing to cash in on his size or cunning
Whatever, not every enemy soldiers in real life kill has a riveting backstory that makes you think; he attacks you, you respond accordingly

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 pm

to be fair, every RPG has this problem, its only really noticeable in skyrim because beth actually made efforts to make hostiles more human (see: the uncanny valley effect). they took a very good step in the right direction with them warning you away; that right there is enough for me, all things considered. everyone isnt hostile towards you for no reason, they just understandably assume you killed their guard and are hostile to them.

adventurers and prisoners and the like have no excuse however; the whole point of putting them in dungeons alongside bandits and necromancers is to make dungeons more believable by showing that you arent the only one who ever runs afoul of these bad people; as in having some sane, town NPC like people in the dungeon. if your going to make them hostile, then why not just have them be more bandits instead of bringing up the question of why people who should be scared/happy/confused to see me are always just murderous? the falmer prisoners in blackreach i can understand though; if i was dragged into the depths of the earth to work for blind shroom addict goblin monsters for what i assume to be a long time, i would probably think any normal human(oid) i see clad in shining armor is a figment of my insane imagination and attack it in a fit of angry defiance against my crazy, lonely mind :ahhh:

.

The fact that they are traipsing through a dungeon only to find another person they will have to split treasure with is incentive enough to attack. They were there first, and so believe that the loot is rightfully theirs. It sounds pretty normal to me.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:23 pm

So this isn't a unique event, happens so often I have lost count. But I'm down this dungeon that some explorers are having some trouble with. Get kidnapped by badguys for future eating, all sorts of tragic things happening to them. They seem level headed. They are very clearly not bandits, they're all named and intelligent.

And for no reason whatsoever, all of the survivors want to kill me.

This is pretty [censored] lazy bethesda. Just put their dead bodies near a pool of blood and say the badguys did it. This [censored] with everything wanting to kill me for no reason is getting [censored] old.

Well, disregarding enemies, if your a Nord, people are generally nice to you

...except guards until you impress the local ruler. Gotta love Skyrim racism.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:05 am

One issue I have is how bandits go out of their way to kill you. Would much rather it had been a toss up as to the hostility or not, many people aren't going to start shooting arrows at you just because to walk by their camp. Would of also been nice to have the option of joining the bandits for some highway robbery and extortion. :celebration:

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Whatever, not every enemy soldiers in real life kill has a riveting backstory that makes you think; he attacks you, you respond accordingly

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69374

And I wish not all NPCs, or even "bandits", were kill-on-sight. Even some of the bandits in Two Worlds had the decency to say "Umm... Good day to you too? Please don't kill us." if you were strong enough.

Maybe I could make a mod that makes bandits more interactive.

The fact that they are traipsing through a dungeon only to find another person they will have to split treasure with is incentive enough to attack. They were there first, and so believe that the loot is rightfully theirs. It sounds pretty normal to me.

"You fool! Why should I share the treasure with anybody?"

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:44 pm

The fact that they are traipsing through a dungeon only to find another person they will have to split treasure with is incentive enough to attack. They were there first, and so believe that the loot is rightfully theirs. It sounds pretty normal to me.

yeah its normal... for a bandit. if an adventurer wanted to murder all of his competition and horde everything for himself, then he would have become a bandit and not an adventurer. even so, they should just say "back off, the loot it mine!" instead of immediately jumping to the murder option; they exist in the game to be different from the bandits who suicidally attack every player character they see after all. however you want to justify it, it doesnt change the fact that they have the same kind of AI as a common bandit when they shouldnt. if their not going to make adventurers behave differently than the bandits they are fighting, why even have them? why not just make them necromancers or falmer or some other generic "kill me" faction?

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:17 pm

yeah but ive still had a few cases where the adventures/prisoners are all nice and help you (usually by the old punch the baddy in the helmet then get cut in half defense) on random encounters so its not all "immhotep"

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:12 pm

My thought on the subject : If you see something moving while not in a city, kill it or it'll try to kill you. 99% of all characters and animals come after me when I'm traveling the area. So I just kill everything I can to keep myself safe.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:13 pm

I wonder why Falmer servants want me dead when I get close. Maybe I just want to free them.

If this is what the OP is talking about, I find it makes sense that they attack you. They aren't "Falmer Slaves" they are "Falmer Servants." They serve the Falmer willingly. Or they could possibly be brainwashed. The Falmer DO seem like they know how to concoct posions and other deadly potions using the mushrooms in their caves.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:53 pm

Several posts went away. If you can't disagree with someone's opinion without making personal attacks, please don't bother to post.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:46 pm

Yeah, I much prefer MAGICALLY knowing the name of this guy tryint to kill me, WHO I NEVER EVEN HEARD OF BEFORE, OR TALKED TO

This. Seems like a waste of time knowing his name when there is no reason for you to know it. Now, for comedy relief, you might have a thief rush out screaming..Hello! my name is Robber Jones and I'm going to killllll you...but other than that...why name them? He's a thief, not your friend. And whoops..he's dead.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:03 pm

Well there is just gangs of bandits and just gangs of people/elves/Orc that are just hostile to everyone

Cheers

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:58 am

If this is what the OP is talking about, I find it makes sense that they attack you. They aren't "Falmer Slaves" they are "Falmer Servants." They serve the Falmer willingly. Or they could possibly be brainwashed. The Falmer DO seem like they know how to concoct posions and other deadly potions using the mushrooms in their caves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PLex6D9o8fQ#t=552s

Basically these 2 are survivors of the Falmer. They are there to explore and stuff but then they escape and have an unimaginative "I'll take all the glory!" (which doesn't make ANY sense) then both of them decide that you have to die. For no reason whatsoever.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:32 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PLex6D9o8fQ#t=552s

Basically these 2 are survivors of the Falmer. They are there to explore and stuff but then they escape and have an unimaginative "I'll take all the glory!" (which doesn't make ANY sense) then both of them decide that you have to die. For no reason whatsoever.

I wonder... if you shoot an arrow into one of each of their knees, will they run off to the nearest hold to become guards?

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:00 am

Play Morrowind, you get insulted even if your the same race as somebody.

"What do you want, outlander?"

"I don't have time for you outlander"