Hm, need your comment on one game related thing people.

Why is it considered stealing to take stuff lying around in opposing faction base? And is there a way around it so that I do not need to lose karma whenever I take something from the table.

For instance, I'm totaly in war with Powder Gangers from start of the game, I've killed like few dozens of them.

I break in NCR Correctional Facility, kill everybody. And now I can't take or touch around the buildings because it's coinsidered to be stealing?

Why do I lose Karma when I take stuff from cam full of dead men? I would understand if I gan more infamy with that faction abut general Karma???

Is there any way around it? And what are your opinions on it guys?

Thanks for all the incoming comments.

Kinda makes complete sense to me. Whether you hate someone or not, taking their stuff is considered theft. Faction alliance does not circumvent the negative moral choice of theft. Does the game prevent you from stealing it, or are you just concerned about the drop in karma from doing it?

Logically, it makes sense to me, be the person living or dead, theft is theft. You're taking something that is not yours.

I agree it makes no sense, it's probably just an oversight, or "game logic".

But! What if you're on a mission to slay local gang leaders (Powder Gangers).

You rush into their base, kill like 40 of it. There are TON of bodies lying around... killing those 40 people who are your enemies is not considered bad for Karma, but taking their stuff lying around is!?!?

Where is sense in that?

-

Killing is Evil not Immoral

i agree with you damirko "killing is ok but stealing is a sick repulsive act"


FIX IT :brokencomputer:

Interesting way to put it

-

It's still stealing, and worse, you're "desecrating" them by stealing from the dead (essentially graverobbing, they just haven't been buried).

To me, IMO, be they your enemy or not, what they have is not yours. You can kill them and suffer no karma loss because they are hostile to you (vs. you shooting a neutral civilian) But try not to see what they have on them as "reward" or "treasure" for your killing them. It's still their stuff. I know there are philosophical questions of "Can someone dead REALLY own somethign?" but I'm guessing the game thinks so, because it penalizes you for taking it.

Now, I'm not sure to what extent the game's karma drop hurts you. Doesn't karma work independent with your faction standing? For example, would this just drop your standing with the people's faction you are stealing from? Or is the karmic loss global, meaning it affects how other factions see you?

That doesn't make any sense at all. In FO3, you went through Fort Bannister, or Raven Rock, you could take stuff laying around or out of lockers.
Additionally, are you loosing Karma from looting them after you kill them?

Seems to make sense to me. Going to war with someone is one thing but looting the bodies/possessions of the dead is something else entirely. Society at large seems to hold this view. It's not so much that it's "stealing" as that it is desecrating the dead.

If you kill someone because they are evil, that is good karma, or at least neutral. They are your enemy, and in a cuthroat world you do what you can. Stealing from someone, dead or alive, is typically a negative aspect. Look at WWII. "We," meaning the allied forces, were "the good guys" (at least since we got to write history afterwards. However, it was still frowned upon if troops looted private property. Keep in mind the game's karma and sense of right and wrong are not really your sense of right and wrong or even the developers' sense of right and wrong, but what the developers believe would be soeciety's overall sense of right/wrong or good/bad in the context that the game takes place in.

Comparing it to fort bannister or raven rock is a little shaky though. As it would turn out, those places are enemy strongholds, pretty much no matter how you look at it, you couldn't ally yourself with the enclave. Even when you took the evil ending they still tried to kill and stop you. The factions you are stealing from in FNV are, if I am not mistaken, factions you could actually ally yourself with should you choose to do so. It's not an enemy unilaterally trying to kill you so much as you choosing sides.

Isn't that the point of the game? Kill people, creatures, etc. Loot. Repeat as often as necessary.

I think having the free will to do what you want is the most rewarding aspect of the game.

IF you feel that robbing the dead is fine, you can choose to, and say "to heck" with the karma drop.

Yeah, I know why its stealing as I COULD ally myself with a faction but I find it a bit odd I am now a evil man (Karma) yet I keep helping free slaves, put down gangs, etc. I dont know if they can even fix this but as it stands its a joke as now you are REALLY limited to what you can get in the game for loot, etc.

If this was RL, and I was fighting raiders, then I wouldnt think of it as stealing. If I was a Raider I wouldnt care if I stole... So overall the setup seems to harm players trying to be a "good guy" more than anyone playing "bad".

It's true.

this makes completely no sense you should get evil karma for killing them and stealing from them OR it should be the otherway around so no evil karma for stealing or killing the enemy faction

FACT: sharks are fast

But hope this game will be so [censored]!

No, I understand that. But, in FO3, there was no Karma loss for looting bodies, unless it was one you got a Karma loss for killing in the first place. Example is the vendor in Evergeen Bazaar. If you don't kill him, you don't get the unique item he carries.

That sounds like something I would consider a bug.

I do believe that is what crazy loot swap pickpocketing and vatsing people in the hand are for.

Oh.

Well, that was "then" and this is "now".

I think what you guys want is "Looting is acceptable without karmic loss on anyone who is hostile towards you without provocation.", right?

In other words:

Walk up to someone, they start shooting you, you kill them and loot, no loss of karma.
Walk up to someone, you kill them and loot, independent of faction/standing, you lose karma.

Wait, where you killing these as part of a quest or was it "I took it upon myself to rid the world of the enemies of ______?"

This is a moddable thing, isn't it? I found a mod for it on the Fallout 3 Nexus, but it's not available now for some reason. Anyway, if they could do it in Fallout 3, I don't see why they can't in Fallout: New Vegas. Then you can have your cake and eat it too. (Unless the reason it's not available anymore is that it didn't work in the first place. )

Agreed, it's pretty stupid, but from a developer standpoint it would be hard to fix. I think modders will have to wait until the New Vegas version of FOSE comes out, and then do a ref walk to set anything in the vicinity owned by that faction as public or player owned. Sorry console users.

Basicly you have a quest on the beging of the game where if you ally with the opposing faction you'll be allways at war with Powder Gangers. And I was doing a quest in Correctional Factility where they have a base, everybody was just mad rushing at me so had no choice but to eliminate dozens of them. But then ih bothers me that I can't take stuff from their lockers withoug getting Karma penalty.

-

I suppose you're robbing their widows and orphans.

That said, I'm pretty sure Obsidian has said that while Karma is still in the game, Reputation has much more effect on your in-game experiences. And reputation depends not on what you've done, but what people know you've done.

In that case, with them being actively hostile and along a quest path, I do agree that this is a problem.