If you respect them you should be honest about your opinions, the positive and the negative ones.

Defending games from all criticism is also quite childish. Just pointing that out.

There's a fine line between criticism and flat-out complaining. Criticism brings with it improvement. Complaining brings nothing but annoyance. Also, not complaining brings complacency, which brings the quality of games down. Why do you think the Call of Duty series is so mocked now-a-days? People didn't criticize when COD 4: Modern Warfare, came out, and the game just got worse from there (although COD 4 is my favorite shooter game, and I know I'll get lots of flak for saying that).

The Great Houses of Morrowind, you could elevate one above the others.

So true.

This.

I really like this game. It's got things to smack and a story. 3 months of play and I'll move on. Surprising how many people want to come on the forums and talk like the game it'self has effected there lives based on something they didn't like and their taking it personal. All a lot of talk and places to stick words they found in a thesaurus online. It is equally negative that i let them under my skin as I do. Where is the general discussion about hidden areas that you've found and others might want to see. Descriptions of epic battles you've had or how you RP if you do at all. General Discussion could just as well be called the "Whine about things just because I have time to post in a Forum" section and it'd be an much more valid title.

I <3 Bethesda.
I can haz Bethesda MMO?


I wanted to add that for every vulgar, negative post.... there are 42 people happily playing Skyrim.

I've played Daggerfall and Morrowind, and not many quests were that much deeper than Skyrim. I don't remember changing the world in anyway, except handful of NPCs changing their dialogue( which was easier to add since it was all text ), which is what were getting in Skyrim essentially. Its not enough to change your emotional balance and use it as leverage to judge ithe game as inferior to its predecessors.

There are parts of Skyrim I like and some parts I don't. I have never made a thread about complaining or praising Skyrim or about anything. Tell me is it mature of you to disregard criticism just because you don't like it? To answer your question am I mature? I try to be however I still retain some of my love for kiddie things and I also have a short temper and tend to be a [censored] at times. However despite all that I try to be nice and when I do say something I always try to respectful about what I say despite what I might think of somebody.

Boy, you are naive and kind. But there's a difference between school and society.

In school all you have to do is be hardworking and everything will be fine. You may not be the 1st in class but your teachers and parents will still be happy with you as long as you are hardworking.

In society, however, hardworking alone is not sufficient. What's more important is the result, especially when you are working in a competitive firm.
You can be as hardworking as one can be, but what matters most is the result. If your boss or customers are disappointed by your result, no matter how hardworking you are, it's still useless.

That's why when selling a product, the merchants will try their best to make it good and sell it, at the same time gathering feedback from customers. Just look at most of the online surveys, usually people will just bother to answer Y/N questions or questions with ratings from 1-10. Fewer people will bother to write their discontents in complete sentences, even fewer bother to provide solutions.

When people are writing their discontents in this forums, they are actually providing some valuable feedback to Bethesda. Yes, some of them are rude and disrespectful. But I believe Bethesda knows what's good for them and what's not. I don't think they are some child who'll just run away and cry when receiving criticisms.

i hate the fact that greaves are combined without adding anything to the actual game (we were told we would get more NPCs, there is vastly less than in oblivion), i hate the fact that spell making was removed (there is no plausible way to defend this), i hate the fact that so many spell effects were removed (i miss my drain stamina, but personal feelings aside, how can you defend this?), i hate the horrible factions (they all svck compared to their counter-part in oblivion, all but the tg that is). i do not understand how soembody, anybody, could defend every single aspect of this game, dont you want bethesda to fix their mistakes? do you actually think skyrim is flawless? (if its the latter, get your head checked) skyrim is not perfect and we need to bring this fact to bethesda's notice, did you think before you made this thread?

The older you get the more you will realize that the internet, especially forums, are a lot like television. There is a bit of reality tossed in here and there but the vast majority of content is over-hyped. You will also begin to understand the term "internet balls." People are much more brave on the internet than they will ever be in the real world.

There are haters because they expected a real life simulation, not a video game.

Wrong.

It's simply stupid to defend Bethesda like a nutty fanb0i. We are all happy that Bethesda makes these games, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize their game. They need critisism to improve their games, not only "OMG BETH WHAT A PERFECT GAME, NOTHING COULD BE BETTER" comments.

Criticism is fine, hate is not. I for one think Beth did a amazing job on this game. There are plenty of bugs/problems but the game as a whole completely out weighs those problems. In the end that is my opinion and yours is yours. You know what they say about opinions. Opinions are like *[censored] holes, everyone has one.

I can appreciate your position, but frankly, a board composed only of people thinking the way you claim would be boring as all get out.

Which is why these forums exist. From what I've read in this topic I've seen no hate, only criticism. Hate is a strong word and is used way too lightly.

Oy... this is just like the Bungie.net forums in regard to Halo Reach.

Let's start, shall we?

First, this is a discussion board meant for... well, discussion. If everyone was on the same side of the fence for every issue, there wouldn't be much of a discussion. We are the people who purchased the game and either like it or dislike it. We, as said purchasers and coming on these forums, have the ability to voice what we like or dislike about the game, why we hate it, why we love it, what we feel would have been cool if it was implemented or what we feel would have been better if it had been changed.

If you want a kumbaiya fest (or however it's spelled), don't join a video game discussion forum, because different people are going to have different views from yours and they share these different views, most of the time, to make the game better or to help evolve the series in the next game.

How the hell do you think developers do it? Do you think after Oblivion everyone on the production/development team just sat around and congratulated themselves when it was time to make Skyrim? No... they sat around and looked at what they had done and then decided what could now be done to make it better.

Dear God... it's like dealing with children sometimes. Most of us like the game, hell a lot of us love the game, but that doesn't mean we should just shut up and play it if we get an idea for how we feel it could be even better.

And in terms of depth for faction storylines... final Dark Brotherhood quest has no depth whatsoever. None.

I will agree with the story argument. The quests don't get very deep, at least not as deep as they seemed to in Oblivion/Shivering Isles.

Basically, I think Bethesda had a due date with Zenimax or whoever they distribute with (or maybe just a due date with themselves) where they had to put the game in. I know this to be true for some audio because I watched the "Behind the Wall" documentary that came with the collectors edition. The main audio engineer was talking about how he was trying to get every sound just as perfect as he could. He said the sounds in the game were the best that he could get them before it had to ship/print. Therefore, I can safely assume Bethesda probably wanted to do more, but I think they were counting on Radiant AI to help out with a lot of the content. Unfortunately, Radiant AI isn't the greatest itself, and doesn't provide any depth in it's quests whatsoever either.

Point being, Bethesda probably wanted to put more in it, but due to timelines/budget they probably couldn't. This is all speculation, though.

When the game grinds to a halt with a lockup every hour and has broken questlines that prevent progress (without using the console) then any good in it cannot possibly outweigh the bad.

And we recognize that (the smart ones anyway), we understand that they may not have been able to do this or that because of time. However that does not mean people should just shut up and accept what we have without feedback.

This isn't a game from the 80s or 90s folks (in regards to console players). Patches are possible, DLC is possible. Patches and DLC oftentimes come due to feed back from players.

I don't hate the game. But it's shallow. Skyrim has many good sides: music is good, voices are great, graphics is good. Skill system is interesting.

But I can't force myself to play at the moment because at the end of the day I play games for gameplay itself. Skyrim has very repetitive gameplay, and very shallow combat. Sneaking is fun for a short while and then you see it's always the same. Yes, quests are numerous and quests target changes but the core gameplay is the same. Archery is the same - fun for a short while then repetitive and boring. Even aiming is simplified (dumbed down if you wish) and you don't have to shoot more up in the air for further targets. Melee combat is a bit of evade and then hit exchange or just spamming. Pretty generic. It also is quite clumsy on my PC. How do you get better at combat? By achieving higher levels / more XP. Not by learning different moves, tips n tricks and such.

I'm also not a fan of the game lore which to me felt anti-Tolkienesque.

Balance is a topic for itself.



I understand that many people think this is a great game and for a short time I enjoyed it as well. I'm just saying that I quickly reached the point where there is nothing new to learn regarding gameplay, nothing to experience with. And that's the key problem for me.

Perhaps this will change with mods.



In closing, I'd like to point out what I consider a gameplay that is not repetitive and where player skill can be improved over time:

* Guild Wars. Easy to learn gameplay but with plenty of tips n tricks. Numerous skills, as well as frequent skill balancing (emphasize on balancing), ensured that game remained fresh for a few years. Important thing: one could kill enemies in the same zone in many different ways (with different skills / weapons). Entertaining replayability. Also, one is able to 'counter' the enemies, outthink them so to speak. To find their weakness. In Skyrim, it's just classical outpowering style.

* Mount&Blade. Easy to learn combat but difficult to master. Anyone who played this game will find Skyrim's melee and archery combat system extremely lacking. Same with civil war.. war.

Another one of those threads... what's the average age in this forum really....

Despite a fair amount of evidence to the contrary, I'd be willing to bet it's a lot higher than you think.

I agree that 'hate' is rather overused, but at the same time there's a goodly bit of condemnation going the other way, what with those who like the game being labeled 'fanb0ys' or 'Bethesda Defense Force', as if it's equally a crime to not find fault with the game.

As it happens I agree with the view that the game's not perfect, since that's impossible, but that doesn't mean that I hate the game, since if I did I would neither be playing it nor posting here. There are design decisions I disagree with (and objectively viewed, some of them are really stupid), and aspects of combat and quest construction I feel could be improved, but at the same time I feel the game as a whole is quite good, since it provides a living world to explore and interact with (albeit in a somewhat limited manner) that each of my characters will make a unique imprint upon, whether it be bold or faint.

Why do people hate on grammar?

Skyrim doesn't exist in a vacuum; this is a game, and one that has to compete against others in its genre (and sometimes outside of it). That said, you have to expect that Skyrim will be compared to other games because Beth has to give me a reason to spend my money on this game and not on others--the onus is on them to win me over by being something different or by providing a proven experience in a new way. For many people, this is not the case, and so they lament the "what should have happened" and the "what could have been."

Too often do I find that people who misunderstand the criticisms leveled at the game, do so because they immediately equate criticism with outright disapproval. Isn't it possible that many of the "complainers" love the game, but want to point out what they see to be flaws or missteps because those things impact their gameplay? What one gamer enjoys, another may find tedious. What one finds mediocre, another will find outstanding. When it comes to Skyrim and the general consensus I get, it seems Skyrim is hit or miss on many different aspects of play. Great environment, poor graphics (in some respects). Lots of features, very little depth to many of them.

And really, I think that about sums up the complaints I've seen repeated: Skyrim is a broad, but shallow game. That is to say, it has the width of the ocean (lots of features), but the depth of a pond (short campaigns, limited player choice, exhaustive willing suspension of disbelief).

Don't make the mistake--like so many others have before you--of writing off the complaints as overly loud griping. The developers would do well to listen to all of the feedback, and it would behoove us as players who love and enjoy these games to allow this to continue being a place where people of both sides can come and share their opinions without being labeled.

Because they hyped it to be something that no game will ever be.

did you?

ever consider that maybe other reasons exist for people being disappointed? your reasoning only makes sense if skyrim was an exact copy of oblivion with no changes other than being "new". but it isnt, it is different. believe it or not, people enjoy some things more than others. people can enjoy the things we had before more than the things we have now. the world does not linearly and undeniably improve everything as time goes by. nostalgia is not the sole positive quality of anything and everything that wasnt released a month ago.

eh... this is kindergarten stuff im explaining. i call troll. no one could really be so ignorant.

hehe, that sounds uncharacteristically optimistic of me.