Why Was Persaude Removed? : V

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:45 pm

In Oblivion this is essential to so many quests, but in Skyrim it went bye bye, did they ever explain why?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:02 pm

You can persuade people in certain dialogue situations.

It was criticized in Oblivion so Bethesda got rid of the whole disposition idea altogether instead of improving it.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:14 pm

What do you mean? It's in there.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:04 pm

The speechcraft in Oblivion was pretty piss poor so that's probably why it got changed.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:15 am

Lazy writers and a stupid 11/11/11 deadline caused horribly shallow dialogue... and persuade/intimidate making an appearance about 3% of the time with absolutely no consequence to selecting it.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:24 am

You can persuade people in certain dialogue situations.

It was criticized in Oblivion so Bethesda got rid of the whole disposition idea altogether instead of improving it.

It's not the same though, it felt more realistic in Oblivion, as you had to make jokes, boast, brag or threaten, not just persaude or intimidate.

Lazy writers and a stupid 11/11/11 deadline caused horribly shallow dialogue... and persuade/intimidate making an appearance about 3% of the time with absolutely no consequence to selecting it.

I think you're right.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:43 pm

Well you still can persaude people, it's just done like it was in FO3, where you can pick a certain dialogue choice and then your speech skill has to be high enough for you to succeed. Or something like that anyway. It's just done more "behind the scenes."

As for why they got rid of the old system, I don't know, I liked it how it was in Oblivion.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:50 am

I think it doesn't matter when using persuade or threaten etc, it just does it with no concequence

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:15 pm

Speechcraft and Mercantile have been combined to the new Speech skill. However, I do feel that there is a disproportion between them. Mercantile has gotten the lion's share, with speechcraft reduced to a few dialogue options.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Well you still can persaude people, it's just done like it was in FO3, where you can pick a certain dialogue choice and then your speech skill has to be high enough for you to succeed. Or something like that anyway. It's just done more "behind the scenes."

As for why they got rid of the old system, I don't know, I liked it how it was in Oblivion.

Another fine point, FO3 did it really good, required actual skill!

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:07 am

Personally, I prefer Skyrim's Persuade, Intimidate, and Bribe to Oblivion's versions.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:36 am

Didn't seem realistic to me. When I talk to people I don't brag, boast, joke, and threaten them at the same time to earn their friendship/hatred.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:41 pm

Didn't seem realistic to me. When I talk to people I don't brag, boast, joke, and threaten them at the same time to earn their friendship/hatred.

Well when persuading people I don't tend to intimidate people a lot of the time.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:41 am

Personally, I prefer Skyrim's Persuade, Intimidate, and Bribe to Oblivion's versions.

I would've liked Skyrim's sysytem if it was actually used, and made a real difference. Oblivion's system may have been less realistic, but at least you got to use it, and it made a noticable difference. And I liked being able to see how much people liked me, instead of just using it as a tool to move quests along.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:35 am

Well when persuading people I don't tend to intimidate people a lot of the time.

That option is just there for the people who wish to use it, you don't have to. But when persuading people in Oblivion, you HAD to threaten even if your character was nice, or joke even if your character was serious and stern.

The only thing I liked about it because I liked to see how characters thought of me.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:29 am

Didn't seem realistic to me. When I talk to people I don't brag, boast, joke, and threaten them at the same time to earn their friendship/hatred.

I would've liked Skyrim's sysytem if it was actually used, and made a real difference. Oblivion's system may have been less realistic, but at least you got to use it, and it made a noticable difference. And I liked being able to see how much people liked me, instead of just using it as a tool to move quests along.

Oblivion's system lacked complexity, but I think they were on to something at least. It was better than their previous system in Morrowind, which was a game-mechanical nightmare. Unless you had the patience, Speechcraft was impossible to level up in the beginning of the game. With the minigame in Oblivion, they at least made it pragmatic. However, they should have expanded on it and made it more complex. I think the solution they made for Skyrim was stupid. The Speechcraft part of the Speech skill has been reduced to a few dialogue choices. I find myself not caring about the Speech skill in Skyrim, whereas in Oblivion and Morrowind, it was always one of my favored skills.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:48 am

I know what ya mean, but persuade was neglected heavily, and with last mechanic in Oblivion, seems they went backwards instead of forwards.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:01 pm

Oblivion's system may have been less realistic, but at least you got to use it, and it made a noticable difference.

It's been awhile since I played but I don't remember using Speechcraft for much of anything in Oblivion. I certainly don't recall it making a noticable difference. Maybe it's because I mainly played Warriors who didn't talk much, I don't know.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:30 am

It's been awhile since I played but I don't remember using Speechcraft for much of anything in Oblivion. I certainly don't recall it making a noticable difference. Maybe it's because I mainly played Warriors who didn't talk much, I don't know.

I used it to persaude the shopkeeper to tell where he got his goods in the quest the merchant's society give ya.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:57 am

It's been awhile since I played but I don't remember using Speechcraft for much of anything in Oblivion. I certainly don't recall it making a noticable difference. Maybe it's because I mainly played Warriors who didn't talk much, I don't know.

The ramifications were very limited, other than a few extra dialogue options here and there, but that's because of lack of writing. Game-mechanically, the minigame was actually alright, just not complex enough.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:20 pm

Persuade and intimidate is there. I decided to use a persuade option in a theif encounter, because I didn't feel like killing Khajits and Argonians over an over in the game, now they are nice to me, every time I encounter them.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:03 am

The ramifications were very limited, other than a few extra dialogue options here and there, but that's because of lack of writing. Game-mechanically, the minigame was actually alright, just not complex enough.

Mass Effects probably did this right and best, it should be considered.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:52 pm

It's been awhile since I played but I don't remember using Speechcraft for much of anything in Oblivion. I certainly don't recall it making a noticable difference. Maybe it's because I mainly played Warriors who didn't talk much, I don't know.

You had to use it to get NPCs dispostions high enough so they would talk to you and give you more information. I used it for that a lot. And it felt like it made more of a difference because you could see each NPCs disposition number towards you going up or down as you used the persausion mini game. They would actually talk to you differently depending on their dispostion. If they liked you a lot, they would give you a friendly greeting as you walked by them. If they disliked you they would rudely tell you to leave them alone or something like that if you tried to talk to them.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 am

They put it all "behind the scenes" so people wouldn't have to worry about any numbers.

[edit]And the mini-game was crap so they took it out in favor of success/failure dialogue options.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:17 pm

You had to use it to get NPCs dispostions high enough so they would talk to you and give you more information. I used it for that a lot. And it felt like it made more of a difference because you could see each NPCs disposition number towards you going up or down as you used the persausion mini game. They would actually talk to you differently depending on their dispostion. If they liked you a lot, they would give you a friendly greeting as you walked by them. If they disliked you they would rudely tell you to leave them alone or something like that if you tried to talk to them.

I know exactly what ya mean, see after hurting those Argonian's in Riften, I want them to not hate me, tried doing ring quest, but he still hates me, so if this was in the game, it be easier to get them to like ya again.