OK, so a new editor, a new Wiki. This one looks like the best so far, of Bethesda's offerings, so that's awesome.

However, it still is going to need updating. It's going to need more guides, more explanations, more tips and tricks. It's going to require that modders share the things they learn that Bethesda never even knew about. That is the point of a Wiki.


I'm making this thread because I want to discuss some about how the CK Wiki will move forward. As some of you may know, previous Wikis have not been exactly stellar examples of "community" achievement: staggeringly large portions of the work on both the CS Wiki and the GECK Wiki were done by a handful of people (and by handful, I do mean five). I know for a fact that many of those people (myself included) cannot afford the time to do so again.

Right now, there will likely be a lot of community on the Wiki; it's brand new, we tend to do better on release. I'm thinking about a year from now — who will step up and continue this? It can't just be a few people; that leads to poor quality, burn-out, and a sense of "yeah, that's a great idea, but it will never happen because I don't personally have the time and no one else is going to bother".

What we really need is for modders to be able to easily and quickly document every little trick they discover, so they can share with others, and we need those modders to take the time to do it. I'm all ears on suggestions for doing that.


Anyway, I'm going to let this get some talk for now. I hope to get some good ideas.

Well hopefully this time I will have something to contribute to the wiki. Only reason I never did anything for the Oblivion CS wiki was because there was already tutorials there for the things I was doing.

Basically, we just need topics like these to come up that point out areas in the wiki that need more information.....half the time you don't know there is infomation missing/out of date until you try and do something with it.

Let's see.

"Creation Kit Keyboard Mapping" Took me a bit to find some of the most essential info.
Let's add it to Category:Editor Reference for faster access.

.... 25!!! Seconds later the edit window opened, no fancy interface just base source code, what took so long?
Done. ... 30 Seconds.... M'kay?
... 20 Seconds (wheeee)
And after having already spent 75 seconds just to add a single line it opens one of those annoying anti-spam puzzle minigames. Unreadable... refresh... Unreadable, refresh... Unreadable, refresh.... (Took only 5 seconds in total, yay!)

This isn't really the most motivating Wiki I've ever used. Too slow and the anti-spam minigame is annoying.

How about we get a pinned topic to where the wiki is at ..Not pineed anywhere up top..

But I will contribute my knowledge that I have learned about Creatures and making new variants via armor addon / armor / texture set..Going to write up a guide on how to do it. I noticed the Wiki did not have anything like this per say..

Im currently working on/following the worldspace generating.....considering how tricky it is, and that there is next to no info on it, if I can get mine working at some point I'll start adding some info.

I agree about the anti-spam (haven't found it particularly slow myself, but then that was during the private beta when I imagine it saw a lot less hammering); I'll try to ask GStaff about it.

Sadly I don't see this as just another microcosm of circumstance affecting the lives of certain individuals like yourself who would otherwise create quality content for no incentive save the benefit of the community. I see it as systemic. I wrote about it in The Death of Open Source:

http://www.iparadigm.org/02-09-2012/the-death-of-open-source/

Basically, NO ONE has the time anymore. Every waking moment of our lives has been reduced to either forced labor or learning the next soon-to-be-obsolete trade of immediate usefulness to future forced labor. The second you quit, you lose EVERYTHING!

Families are torn apart. Homes and communities are destroyed. All because a handful of globalist slave owners refuse to establish a minimal standard for distributive resources and public housing like what I suggested on my webpage in the opening post, and have mailed extensive details about to congress and this president.

Our society has been sold out from under us, and now we're expected to dance, for less than minimum wage I might add!

It is a tragedy for all lovers of knowledge and liberty, but I don't see it getting any better. Pretty much ALL modern corporations seem to be on-board with this mindset. "Me me me, life is short and I deserve it!" Call it a consequence of your “leaders” wanting you to compete with the Chinese work-obsessed “ethic” before they even fulfill their duty to defense, given the threat of biotechnology against which we are STILL defenseless.

I’m sure the Bible or some such foretold all this nonsense. Humans NEVER change.

I don't care if that was the topic or not. Thumbs Up, Phinix!

It wasn't, really, and further is probably against the rules. I don't really care about the broader circumstances around this; I just want the Wiki to succeed. I certainly cannot "blame" anyone for my lack of time: I only had as much time for previous Wikis as I did because I was in high school; I am not any longer.

At any rate, the lack of response to this is rather disappointing. Please post here if you intend to contribute your knowledge to the community by improving the Wiki.

I intend to contribute my knowledge to the community by improving the Wiki. http://www.creationkit.com/INI_files

I've already seen some people contributing besides asking questions (which is also a contribution, as long as they're relevant). You can follow the new pages http://www.creationkit.com/Special:NewPages, those are usually quite interesting. At the top there are two new tutorials, that's a great start!

You're absolutely right and this has to change.

One issue I'd like to raise and discuss is how to handle the two different sets of functions we have currently. There are a lot of old/console/condition functions on the one hand and the Papyrus functions on the other hand. We need a way to indicate that these are different, both in a wiki organization way and on the page itself (a banner/message thing, or just a note?). I also don't like that they're the default (e.g. http://www.creationkit.com/HasSpell is the condition function, http://www.creationkit.com/HasSpell_-_Actor is the Papyrus function), I suggest switching that around (e.g. "HasSpell (condition)" and "HasSpell"). Any thoughts on this?

I can't download the XML file for the notepad++ setup. Does anyone know how?

Link http://www.creationkit.com/Notepad%2B%2B_Setup

I want stuff on the wiki as far as "common pitfalls" with Papyrus are concerned. Examples (discovered only through hours of stupid errors);

- The "new" keyword cannot create new objects, only arrays. Papyrus also does not have proper constructor support. The only way to create an object in script is through casting a PlaceAtMe object.
- Casting a parent object as a child (e.g. casting an ObjectReference as a TestReference) will only work if the TestReference base object contains the TestReference script.
- Papyrus cannot do the following cast: String s = (number*-1.0 as String). You must split this up into 2 lines.
- There is no root object; therefore, you cannot cast int, float, etc to an object. Form is the closest.

Etc.

I plan to make a page with all of this stuff, or if someone wants to do it first that would be great.

There's no need to download any xml file from that page. You can create one for yourself and fill it with the content from Syntax Highlightning section from that page.

On http://www.creationkit.com/File:Papyrus.xml, right click Papyrus.xml and choose save as.

Go right ahead! Don't perfect it first, don't write a complete article about, just put it on there. You can always prettify it later.

Bares bones page up here: http://www.creationkit.com/Papyrus_Common_Pitfalls_and_Best_Practices

I think this is perfectly obvious if you understand what casting does in the first place. Therefore, I think the solution to this confusion is to clear up the explanation of casting (and inheritance in general).

Really? Have you tried using parentheses and spaces to clarify your meaning better? I.e. String s = ((number * -1.0) as String)?

A root object would not help anyway, because primitives are not objects to begin with. This is true in just about every object-oriented language I can think of; when necessary, many languages provide "wrapper" objects for the primitives (see Java's int versus Integer, for example).

EDIT: Though, now that I think about it, I suppose you would need a root class from which to make those wrapper objects. I'm not sure how important that would be.

I'm adding things as I learn them. I've also created a new "Modder Tutorials" category that we can add any new tutorials to.

On second thought, "Community Tutorials" seems like a better name, so I've altered it to that.

Thanks for the comments. The problem again is the inability to create objects; hence an Integer object would not be .. easy to implement.

I mostly wanted such a Wrapper object to make implementing things like ArrayList or LinkedList possible, or more complicated things like HashMap or TreeMap. Scripting possibilities will really take off if we can get some real data structures into Skyrim; think extendable alchemy sorters, trade systems, etc.

While none of the devs can promise our time (we're obviously super busy with future stuff), it's important to me that the wiki be a good resource. I also enjoyed writing the tutorials that I did (pretty much made "the thing I wish I had when I was making my design sample as I applied to Bethesda") and am willing to do more if there are topics through which people would like a more guided tour.

Again, no promises. But intent!

FYI - we just put a page up yesterday with the same goal. I took the liberty of consolidating them. This is a great place to start a knowledgebase for common problems folks are encountering while learning Papyrus.

Thanks, Put some categories on that page to better organize things.

I enjoy the indepth level design tutorials that are going up now very much but I'd also like to see a "How to" section for specific basic things, such as:

How to make a spell.
How to import a heightmap and get it working.
How to create a new perk.
How to create a staff.

Things along these lines where people that don't have the time to look through numerous tutorials and piece together how to do something can find a quick step by step solution for something.

Dragoon, once I get my head and chest working again, I'd like to set up an Art Portal, similar to the portals we had for the cs wiki. Mind if I hit you up later on some questions I'll have?

I sign up yesterday and I don't know much about modding, but I remember from the tutorial video that you can use the same key commands like you did in Morrowind CS. For instance the Shift key to rotate the camera and if you're a new to modding these keys can be hard to remember of what they do, so a list of those keys would be convenient to have on Creation Kit Wiki.

Can you tell me what SkyrimCustom.ini has for purpose?