See my post http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1342563-will-steam-works-be-one-click-install-and-how-will-they-insure-compatibility/page__view__findpost__p__20238754 .

This is speculation built on top of more speculation, but I'm mostly thinking of the possible official high res texture pack, if it's only available through steam, your suggested advanced buttons aren't going to help.


In that case, unless Bethesda has created some entirely new way of installing mods, you're still going to have those .esps and .esms in your /data directory, so you'd still be able to manage them via WB or NMM, just the same as you would if they were downloaded from the Nexus or elsewhere.



I forgot about that statement, it sort of makes it sound like maybe Bethesda has created some new system for packaging and installing mods, so maybe there's nothing to worry about. It'll be interesting to see how it all works.

Ok, I think perhaps you misunderstood me. I simply meant that mods that require code injection or large-scale file replacement wouldn't be compatible with the simple archive/esp system that it appears Steamworks will use. So all mods like that will have to be put on other download sites. Yes, that's speculation, and perhaps I should have hedged it round with 'I thinks' and 'it looks to me like', but life's short . As for official DLC, like HD texture packs or new areas/factions/whatever, then the same situation will apply as before. You get it by whatever means as a combination of new executable, new .esm and new archives, and mods will either be compatible with it or not. Ok, not all official DLC will need a new executable, but many will.

It's been clear all along that Steam Workshop will be for mods. Bethesda may use this method for distributing official DLC, but I doubt it.

Well... tweaked at least . I don't think they've re-done much, and it'll still be the basic combination of assets and .esp - just one of those assets will be an ini file, in addition to the meshes, sounds, textures etc.

Generally TES games have continued to prioritize loose files over ESP and BSA. I would, however, agree with the assessment of the others in that archives will probably be BSA's. I don't know exactly what Steamworks will do as far as loading priority. (If the last BSA being installed would be last to load or if it's just random). Either way, unpacking a BSA will probably do the trick, although you would have to keep up with any updates that are downloaded as they wouldn't auto-unpack. In addition, if you unsubscribe from a mod (uninstall), it wouldn't remove any files you manually unpacked so you would have to not only delete those files manually but also unsubscribe as well.

I would doubt that Steamworks will create directories. Furthermore, I doubt that zipped/loose files will be used. ESP and BSA are more likely to be the only thing supported in Steamworks.

Well, I'd not be surprised. The default data files manager still CAN'T EVEN SET LOAD ORDER of its own accord, and that's one of the most BASIC functions needed for multiple mods.
On another note, BSAs can conflict without overwriting. Expect a LOT of troublecalls over people installing two mods that overlap and the BSAs have identical mesh/texture designations and confuse the hell out of their game. Watch for "Game is broken" or "Mod is broken" reports to sky rocket from people either too stupid or too impatient to figure it out.

doesnt bothe me anyway i doubt ill be using steam for mods much

perhaps boss can be uploaded as well and used to sort mods? especially since it is updated frequently?

it can be dded to the ui where you laod games and such, first hit sort, then play?

Mods using SKSE does not require, any other dll than SKSE who should not be bundled but linked anyway.
However as the mod has dependencies might not be an good idea to add as the workshop will get many new players who know little of mods.

As the mod will consist of just an esp and an bsa file so it's no problem moving them out or ripping them apart like if you just one weapon from an large mod.
You could also just subscribe, copy esp+bsa out then unsubscribe/ remove and copy the files back to avoid updates, also nice if you have modified an mod.

I don't think Steam Workshop will do much about load order. Skyrim's vanilla "Data Files" option does not allow any sort of load order whatsoever

Or at least, that my impression?

Actually it was Joel Burgess's idea. Nothing to do with Valve or Steam.

This. This needs to be echoed many times. It was unrelated to valve.

Unrelated only insofar as Joel approached them about it and not the other way around. The Workshop itself already existed prior to Skyrim though. TF2 has had it up since October.

Who is Joel Burgess and what does he have to do with whether there is an "advanced" download button or not?

Joel Burgess is the senior (level) designer for Skyrim, and he came up with the idea to use Steam Workshop.

Okay, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether there is an "advanced" download button on Steam Workshop or not. That's all Steam's idea (to not include an "advanced" download button).

If you have a house mod installed and Steam automatically installs a updated version, the ESP will be overwritten with the new ESP and the player will loose ALL items that they had stored in that house. Vanished completely.

I can see this becoming a major problem for newbies, when all their treasures and weapons suddenly vanish.

Nobody knows who's idea it is and why Bethesda chose for the subscription-format.

Why would this be the case? It wasn't with Oblivion when folks downloaded updates to mods.

Only if FormIDs changed on all the parts that contained the players gear. As far as I understand.

I'm sure they will have a feature to turn on/off auto update. That would be easy to implement and crazy not to.

Changing formIDs could only happen through a deliberate choice made my the author. It's not something that happens as a happy accident.

Ah, I specifically said "SKSE plugins", which are .dll's. Certainly mods that just use SKSE's enhanced scripting features would be compatible with an archive/.esp format in Steam Workshop. But you're probably right, it might confuse people... or not. I mean, most of us manage to cope with a mod who's description says "requires SKSE, available from..."

It was the case with all my house mods and town mods. I lost stuff myself when I didn't take out my belongings. Slight change to the ESP name with a new version number and it installs like a whole new mod. Most modders change the ESP name to show a different version number 1.1 or whatever.

Maybe it doesn't happen with not changing the name, although that has not been the case for me. New ESP overwrites and all containers are empty and everything is set back to how it was before the player entered the town or house.

Keeping the same ESP name should prevent most of these issues.

What, just like how Skyrim is available only through Steam/Steamworks? It'd be a problem if Skyrim wasn't a Steam-only deal, but as it is it's kinda, y'know, just putting everything in the same place.But saying that's an example of why Steam's trying to "box people in" is wrong. Boxing people in would mean hiding the mod directory in an obscure location and making it compulsory to use the Workshop to download mods. This is just an example of not trying to confuse people - y'know, the ones who probably don't care about manually updating mods.