i was wondering if it would be worthwhile to get both of these trees. shieldplay seems pretty cool with the power bashing and stuff, but DW also is pretty fun. this is the first char ive tried either on. also note ive already play 100 hours or so, so its not really a "play it my way" thing but just wondering if itll be a good build.

still debating on whether to just ignore enchanting too, for some added challenge

also this would be a new char

I'd rather have one of the two on one character, not both.

I do both and play with the dual wielding block mod (not nearly as OP as some think). For RP (my character wouldn't do that) and game play (keeping the challenge) reasons I do not enchant.

I was talking about vanilla of course, where you can't block when dual

Pick one or the other.

Dw and block can go well together, where both skill tree go well with 1 hand, while you want to play save, 1 hand + shield, if you need to go all out, put on DW. There must be some situation you want to use either of one. Just consider youself a 1 hand + shield player where DW is a plus, only 3 more perks.

yeah i suppose its only 3 points. probably going to get onehand, heavy armor, block, smithing (heavy side), and maybe alchemy because i like it. we will see what happens

^ This. Adds a little extra to your play. Also, you can use a torch to block. The block perks should work with a torch too.

Nope, they are completely incompatible with one another. You have to stop utilizing one in order to start benefiting from the other. And now 2 trees are costing you perks.

I would save those block perks and throw them into armor and/or into archery. Since a bow - dual wield can be swapped from one to the other with no problems.

I love the block perks on my warrior. The shield play in the game is very fun and satisfying. I also enjoy the fight animations for 1h attacks.

I would recommend saving dw for a rogue/assassin type character. I went that route on my thief/assassin and it is extremely enjoyable but I wouldn't waste the points to get both on one character.

Dual wielding looks cool and I have played some characters that did it exclusively, but it really doesn't put out the extra damage that it is supposed to do in order to off-set the lower AR and blocking. So basically it's for looks only as it does not turn you into the super killing machine many had hoped for.

Do one or the other and do it because that's what you want to do. You really can't master both anyway.

^^ This

Block is an easy one to build up on (just hold the shield up against a foe and occasionally heal when low).

Ironic argument is ridiculous. You're saying that the OP must not use DW and Block perks because they're impossible to use together, yet assert that the OP should use Archery instead? Because you can use a sword and bow at the same time, right?

Don't listen to that nonsense, OP. Personally, I would use Block and DW. It's only three extra perks, as opposed to a whole extra tree (*ahem* ARCHERY), and it will give you great variety in combat. You can easily go from offensive to defensive, which is even better utilized if you're an Orc, since Berserker Rage doubles both your offensive and defensive prowess. It's also fun to mix things up, I find

Think of your character as a sort of melee weaponsmaster

Alright point-misser. Block/blade and DW are melee options. Archery is range. I thought that was obvious, guess not. Archery also does not require a whole extra tree, it really only need the damage boosters to be fully effective. What a vitrolic post to have and yet to include no new material to the thread.

Retro-edit: Eh, Looks like the majority in the thread are also saying pick one or the other, no need to clog this thread up talking with a surly member.

Speaking of missing the point and adding nothing to the thread, did you know that the OP made no mention of needing ranged damage? Perhaps the OP uses Archery already, magic, companions, or even shouts. I'm pretty sure Archery is not required to be successful in combat, even at range.

Also, the three extra perks DW costs is little compared to five ranks of damage-increasing for Archery (or diving into the tree if one desires better competence), especially considering that Block is rather expensive, perk-wise.

Edit: And since you so obviously missed this point: yes, Archery is a whole tree unto itself. DW is not; it's a branch of a tree, no more expensive than, say, the Mage Armor branch of perks or the fire damage branch in Destruction.

Yes, there is decent synergy, plus you only need 3 perks into block and a skill of 30 to be pretty much indestructible. Shield Wall, Quick Reflexes, and Deflect Arrows. Use Dual Wield primarily, and switch to shield when confronted with a tough melee enemy or whenever you feel that you need it.

Yup yup, this.

Though higher Block skill won't hurt. Block Runner, Shield Charge, and one I think is called Elemental Protection (+50% elemental resistance when blocking) are absolutely invaluable.

Block Runner is worth it just for the hilarity that ensues. I have a tough time using it, as I have to switch my grip on the controller so I can hit the bumper and trigger simultaneously.

My Argonian uses a lot of daggers. I use dual weild because the damage is increased, offsetting the weaker dagger damage a bit, at the same time maintaining a high DpS
I wouldnt use both.. waste of points

TBH, I think that's a good argument for OP to use both. Just put perks into both and see if you regret it; you can always re-roll (or just ~ if you're on PC).

The way I figure, if OP needs an opinion (and obviously, ours differ), the best for the job is probably his/her own, which, I suppose, requires OP using both DW and Block.

3 points is not that many. A dual-wield warrior isn't perking into that many trees, and most perks svck anyway. I usually end up with a surplus of perk points unless I'm going pure mage.

I did a character that used one-handed, including dual wield, archery, block, heavy armor and light armor. It's definitely possible. I know some can consider this a "waste" but I just wanted a well-rounded warrior. I like to have options.

I can choose to go out as a light armored archer with dual-wielding weapons for melee or just a heavy armored, one-handed with shield type warrior. It's definitely possible on the same character, although I did it on expert, not master.

I even had perks left for restoration, smithing (steel and arcane only), three perks in sneak (one sneak, one muffle, one backstab), etc.

I didn't use enchanting on that build.

In theory are they two opposing techniques. Dual-wielding is an offensive technique and blocking is a passive technique. For role-playing can it make sense to train both. When you want to play a versatile warrior, who is skilled in more than one form of combat. You can use a one-handed weapon together with a shield for safety when you are exploring unknown areas, and switch to dual-wielding combat when you know your opponents and what to expect from a situation.

Some shields one can find come with high resistances against fire or frost and are useful against attacks from flying dragons. Once a dragon lands can one switch to dual-wielding and rush into an attack for example.

Me too. The dual wield and block are different styles of play more suited to seperate characters.

To the OP: However, it only takes three perk points to max out the dual wield branch of the one handed tree, so if you are going sword and board, you can easily pick up dual wield as a secondary talent if you want to.

For that matter both dual wield and block are extremely effective skills even without investing perk into either. The dual wield perks only increase attack speed and critical hit damage. You can be very effective at dual wield without the three dual wield perks.

Conversely, you can be a very effective blocker without investing perks into the tree. You do not need a single perk invested in the block tree to block damage and to do a bash that staggers opponents and interrupts spells.

So, there is nothing wrong with your dual wielder occassionally picking up a shield or your sword and board character occassionally putting a second weapon in his off hand instead of a shield.

In terms of role-playing?