in my custom worldspace cell i am noticing my script is not functioning properly at all so i made a test script with the following:

Event OnCellAttach()debug.messagebox("test1")int LoadCheck = 0If (LoadCheck == 0)	debug.messagebox("test2")EndIfEndEvent

using human logic, i would assume to see test1 and test 2 pop up but what actually happens in game is:


i coc into my cell and get test1 ONLY, even though i set the integer variable to 0 directly before asking if it is 0 (when using an existing save game i get nothing at all)

then i exit to skyrim, walk around a bit then come back into the cell and get NO messages (OnCellAttach does not fire any more no matter how many times i visit the cell until i load a new save game or quit and reload the game?
i should also note that i am getting the levitate bug when this happens (floating hundreds of feet suspended in air above the cell)

how can this make any sense (i can understand in the case with the levitate bug, that the game decided to erase the object that the script was attached to (damn you tessnip), but it makes no sense in the initial COC which fires only the first line of code and ignores the rest which is supposed to fire

i opened the file in tessnip again and it looks like a lot of the REFR objects are not even showing their editor ID (and one of these is the one that has the script attached to it)

+1 confirm that tessnip will cause serious irreversible damage to your plugin.

i dont even know how to begin trying to fix this as my mod has over 3000+ REFRs and i cant go in and check them all to see which ones were destroyed in tessnip
3 months, 400+ hours of work down the drain. thanks

I hope you've got a few backups lurking around on your drive.

backups wont help, since i've destroyed the file loooong ago. ive been using tessnip to "clean" the mod for the past several weeks, so i would assume the damage goes all the way back to when i first began to mod

thankfully if i do start over, i can reuse all of my scripts which took the most time, and i suppose i can just have 2 CKs open so that i can reference the old file and create all the objects in the new file using x,y,z coordinates (PIA but will be quicker than eyeballing)

Okay this has just scared the &^*$ out of me, I have been using TESvSnip to clean my current mod for months. Were you using version 1.4?

i'm using version 1.5.27 (or whatever is the latest skyrim/ck patch)

if your ck is still v1.4 i would imagine using tessnip would not have as big of an impact. it wasnt until v1.5 that tesnip started to corrupt mod files.

my first mod was done with extensive tessnip use, and was all created prior to v1.5 and it still runs mostly fine, but now i can never update it using ck 1.5.27 because im afraid it will destroy the file once it writes into the new record definitions


if you are making a mod that is world-based (WRLD, LAND, NAVI/NAVM, CELL and REFR etc etc records), i can assure you that tessnip is 100% unsafe to use, and should only be used as a READ-ONLY resource (just to view contents in an organized way instead of the details button in the ck), but all edits and deletes should be done in details (ignore flag) in the CK.

my problem above is also compounded because it is an esm. but then again i cant even test it as an esp since it CTDs if i try to enter the worldspace (probably also tessnip related i dont know for sure anymore)

Just backed up my entire Data folder.

Uhhh

Are you guys talking about TESSnip or TESVSnip?

both of them are outdated and will cause corruption

the extent of tessnip corruption knows no bounds. i tried pick-axe-ing a vanilla ore mine and it started playing my stone wall-slide sound effect. that makes me brain turn inside out. how is that even... how you doin that? how you doin that?

Wow that's rough to say the least, I don't think i have used either of those programs for a while so hopefully my house mod is safe. I'll be double checking my computer to see if they are still around and purge every bit of them.

"i dont even know how to begin trying to fix this as my mod has over 3000+ REFRs and i cant go in and check them all to see which ones were destroyed in tessnip
3 months, 400+ hours of work down the drain. thanks"

Were you able to work this out????

no. the file is dead for good. no ressurection spells or phoenix downs can save it... it's "cutscene dead"

i already started over. it wont take nearly as long to rebuild it because i still have all my scripts intact and i have 2 ck editors open. one with the old file (which i can view fine in the CK) and the new file placing all the objects exactly in the same x,y,z coords as the old one. its tedious at best, but i will have it back soon enough

Well this is disheartening to hear. I got TESVSnip installed last week as I'd like to start working on something bigger. Also grabbed Wrye Smash as I'd like to keep my Worldspace and supporting cells in a separate ESP. Doesn't Wrye have similar sanitation tools? Doesn't have the same browsing/editing I guess.

i havent tried wrye yet, but i have to say im a bit afraid to use any 3rd party program now.


in the mean time i am going to try to get a working skeleton of my mod with all the worldspace/cells in barebones layout with only NPC, containers, base structural statics and non-vanilla navmesh in the esm only with nothing else, to see if i can replicate the same glitches in a CK-only non-snipped mod. then slowly add everything else back in on the slaved esp. if this all works, it is 100% conclusive to me that using tessnip caused irreversible corruption.

I ditto that thought.

Until I start reading about a utility that's fully compatible I think I'll stick with using TESVSnip just to play with the IS ESM flag.

Ouch, looking over each part of the house and placing them at the same coordinates...I guess it's better than nothing. I can understand how much work that is, most of my house doesn't necessarily snap together well ><

Good luck getting back up to speed!

You can ESM'ify with the CK. Change extension to ESM, open as "Active", save, exit, done. Currently, that won't give it an ONAM list or anything, but it will tick the ESM flag.

To ESP'ify, I'd sooner use WryeSmashes "Copy to ESP".

yeah, at this point, i think esm'ifying using tesvsnip is maybe the worst thing you could possibly do to your mod

I like this better than that tired and overused meme "what is this, I don't even.."

Sorry you lost your file.

I just tried this myself, but it worked without any problems for me. I didn't alter the ESP with TESvSnip though... what did you do that makes you think Snip caused it? (so I can recreate it) I've tried simply re-saving it in Snip, and while the records are decompressed, there was no damage to the mod in-game. This is using a custom test-mod; a door to an interior, both doors' cells finalized for navMesh, a custom NPC to test for NavMesh Bug, and notif's set to fire during onCellLoad and onCellAttach (in both the interior and exterior/Vanilla). I also set the notif's for 'before, during, and after' - as in before incrementing the simple counter, inside the if-endif block for the counter, and after the if-endif block.

As I said, it worked fine... and the NavMesh Bug wasn't even triggered (though I used an "intracell" NPC, which usually doesn't trigger, I'm going to go back and test for inter-cell AI breakage). What new info i DID find was that the Attach and Load events fire simultaneously... sometimes one before the other, sometimes those notif's are stuck between each other (indicating both events running at the same time). I didn't know this before, and almost suspected the Load didn't fire if the Attach did. Also, the Load event doesn't seem to fire sometimes.. even after some fast-trav-returns. This was kinda strange, so I want to test it further before I say anything more.

Something I already mentioned elsewhere, which you're probably aware of already, is that some commands will NOT fire if run consecutive to specific other commands. An example of this is when you try to do a transTo on the next line after an enable(). I doubt this is your problem as the above code doesn't have any of the 'time-sensitive' commands I encountered. But if you DO run across something like that, I found putting a short wait() between the lines works (or outright moving the line to another event/function/etc).

[EDIT: unless you manually disabled it, CK incrementally backs up your ESP every single time it's saved.. found in the Backup/ folder in the game's main folder (one folder ABOVE the Data/ folder). So there should be a backup of every instance you've ever saved changes for. ALSO, I know the Load event only fires when the cell isn't loaded.. but I'm talking about it not firing when I REALLY think it should be, like after several fast-travs.]

After what's been discussed about tesvsnip over the last few days, I think I'll just bite the bullet and start over also. I havnt technically experienced any problems, but I'm putting it down to not really testing things how a player would use it (iv been coc-ing from main menu, etc).

The longest part I think will be remaking the various interior cells. Having 2 instances of the ck running will help, but it will still be a laborious endeavour

I suppose the silver lining will be that my mod is going to turn out a lot cleaner. I'v been using it as my learning project so there is the odd few remnants of failed experiments floating about.

- Hypno

@sluckyD - it would be hard to trace back to when it first happened. although i did try to reload my earliest backup save, and when i converted that to esm in the ck and tested it the same way i tested the last version, it still bugged out to varying degrees

i have used tessnip to edit/cut/paste records, many of which were cell, wrld and navi/navm. done this several times thoughout the course of the project

also, i never noticed anything was going wrong because i always coc'd from main menu (which i am now thinking is not the best way to test mods without testing against other scenarios) and did not have other mods loaded, and was almost always tested as esp



from now on, when i go into the game to test major milestones, i will convert to esm, do a coc from main menu + load save game (saved right outside helgen after mq101) + load a "weathered" save with mods installed + load my collection of user-given saves


in my situation i think the problem i am having with tessnip is compounded by the fact that i am using an esm (with navmesh + all world/cell/navi in the esm). when i load the file as esp only, not all the same things happen. for one, the code always fired as is supposed to. also i didnt ever notice the strange things manifesting until i started adding in other mods. the completely random phantom sound glitch happens only with another esm mod installed, and the levitate on fast travel glitch only happens if another mod is installed that has a navmesh. usually it only levitates if you fast travel from the 3rd party mod's navmeshed area, but i am noticing it will just happen randomly even when fast travelling into my new area from skyrim.

the problem could be going beyond just tessnip. because afaik, simply having multiple navmeshed esms installed will cause strange things to happen, but multiple esp navmeshed mods do not have as many strange behaviors (although they have a whole other set of glitches of their own).




as soon as i get my mod's skeletal structure back up and running again (all basic cell architecture and floor plan recreated + navmeshed + all interconnected/finalized) i will re-convert to esm and see if i can replicate some of the glitches without using tessnip at all (to see if that was the cause).

@slucky - just so i can prove to myself i am not going insane, try this test (which i can replicate with 100% same result each time)


this glitch is not tessnip related btw, it is somehow navmesh related and affects esp and esm regardless


create a new worldspace
place a floor static, a coc marker, a map marker, navmesh and finalize it (no doors needed for this test). save and exit.


create a BRAND NEW plugin. go into tamriel worldspace, create a balcony of some sort or anything that allows you to make a brand new navmesh with a 01 form ID, not an edit of existing vanilla mesh. if you want you can do a second test with your "balcony connected to vanilla navmesh method", but first try it so that the navmesh is either an island or has its own brand new form ID. finalize, save and exit



start a game with both esp's active. visit your edited cell in tamriel first, and stand on the area that has the new navmesh and fast travel to the marker in your custom worldspace. the result i always get is that you will float hundreds of feet in the air, but as if on solid ground (hear footstep sounds), and if you try to get back down with TCL, you can, but as soon as you return to collision mode, it sends you back into the sky.




btw, i am almost done with my skeleton test, will post results here in a bit

so far on the skeleton test:


i have finished re-creating the base structure of the mod that contains only basic structural statics and navmeshed together for all cells and doors, and i converted that to an esm. i went back and re-tested it exactly same as before and none of the glitches are popping up. i went ahead and added the test script in the OP and it fires properly, giving all the correct messages. i went ahead and threw in some of the scripted objects into the file and re-tested and everything works fine. the levitation-prevention script works, and it is all working good. named REFRs are showing up with their editor IDs. i will follow up on the test once more when i re-clutter the interiors with all the stuff as i had it before (just to make sure its not because of papyrus strain)

but as of right now, according to the initial results of this test, all fingers are pointing to tessnip corruption