As topic.

I'm referring to the DB Quest Hail Sithis where you have the opportunity to kill Titus Mede II, emperor of Cyrodill.

Are there anyone here who killed the emperor, but still supported the Imperials?

Does it still make sense to support the imperials if you kill the emperor?

How do you justify (In a roleplay view) your character killing the emperor AND supporting the imperial?

Just posted this in your other thread but I'll do it here too since it's more on topic:

Quite easily. My character decided that Empress was a pretty neat title, and decided to take it for herself. To that end she killed Mede, and Motierre (can't really do it in game but role played that she put the letter he sent to Astrid on him) while wearing the Penitus Oculatus armor to make it seem like they had discovered who was behind the plot after destroying the Sanctuary in Falkreath.

With the Elder Council discredited, and the Emperor's seat vacant, my character, the Dragonborn who saved the world from Aludin, Thane in all the Holds of Skyrim, and the war hero who ended Ulfric's life, can march into Cyrodiil escorted by a dragon and make a pretty convincing bid for the throne. She's got a pretty convincing resume and has aligned the pieces pretty carefully in her bid for power.

Someone who joins either the stormcloaks or the imperials seems like and idealistic person who will put their lives on the line to go to the battlefield and fight for there cause no matter what the cost. It seems like someone who kills for money in the shadows probably doesn't have a very good roleplaying reason to join either side of the civil war and a real assassin would stay neutral and take jobs from both sides.

It doesn't make sense to support the legion if you killed the emperor as you are violating the oath. Someone will definitely come on to this topic and do the mental gymnastics required to overcome the cognitive dissidence of killing the embodiment of the oath every legionnaire takes but it won't make sense to me. Seriously as an ex-army soldier in real life the idea makes my head explode. But in all seriousness its a fantasy game so it really doesn't matter if you do both as you don't need a good reason to do anything. Do what is fun and if having fun means strict roleplaying with logical consistent decision making make two characters.



Case in point you don't really support the legion if you do this. You only support yourself. This is valid reason to join the legion and the DB but you sure as hell arn't supporting the imperials as the topic creator asked.

Very interesting views.
I agree with Cromwest on this quote although there isn't a choice in the game where you have a proper "quest ending" of not supporting anyone.


REL_Dovahkin's interpretation is also quite nice in that his char is basically an usurper.
Too bad we also don't have this choice in the civil war.

Both very good views guys.
Anymore differing views from anyone else?

Not necessarily. I support the Empire and believe that a united front under its banners has a better chance of taking on the Dominion than a rickety alliance between countries, but I feel Mede hasn't done a good job leading the Empire and has lost his Divine Right (if ever he had one) to lead. It's more detrimental to the Empire to have him on the throne and I'd be doing a disloyalty to the Empire to let him continue his ineffectual rule. Meanwhile, Motierre and I have some bad blood, and there's no way I'd let him on the throne, so I need to take him out too.

It comes down to a matter of do you believe that the Empire you took an oath to serve is static, and locked into whatever the status quo is at the time, or an ideal that one has to strive for. While my character is largely acting out os self-interest and a desire for power, it isn't so she can rule as a tyrannical despot. At this point in time, the Empire is unable or unwilling to keep the Dominion out of its borders and defend its people. I have no way of knowing if, when, or who plans on changing this, and so I'm forced to believe that no one is and it's never going to happen. On the other hand, I know I have the power to make a difference and to challenge the Thalmor, but I can't as long as the ruling class forbids it, which makes me think it's time to change the ruling body.

From my point of view, the Empire isn't supporting the Imperials, Nords, Bretons, or anyone else loyal to it to the extent it should, but by removing the ineffectual rulers and defending my people, I am supporting the Empire and its people.

I will repeat myself:

But by killing the Emperor, aren't you causing anarchy?
I mean who are we to say that Titus Mede II was an inefficient ruler? And even if he was, killing him will surely destroy the Empire morale.
Surely if they have not taken action against the Thalmor if Titus was alive, i doubt they'd take action if he's dead.

And we don't know when a new emperor would be reinstated.

This is very applicable if you adhere to Cicero's way of thinking, but not Astrid's way of thinking.
Even the DB itself is kind of split up between their 2 ways of thought.

One is to follow the old way, the other is to carve out a new destiny.
I'm aware that Astrid did finally agree to Cicero's views in the end, but that was spoken when she was about to die.
Had things turned out differently, would she still agree to Cicero's views?

Well, the contract to kill the emperor was just bussiness. Nothing personal.
So joining the empire won't be a bad idea even after that, you just need to keep that little secret to yourself.

It's order out of chaos. A bit of anarchy and confusion to help my bid for power and instill order. Anarchy breaks out, and I march into the Imperial City to calm everything down and get a grip on the situation. Instant hero.

Currently the Empire's in a state of chaos anyway. Sure it looks ordered, but Skyrim's in a Civil War, and the Thalmor round up dissidents in the night. The people are in a state of chaos while the government does nothing to help them. In my eyes the onus falls on Mede, since he failed to repel the Thalmor and capitulated to their demands.

Morale will only be hurt in the immediate times of Mede's passing. After that, and I rise to power, the people will rejoice, for they now have a leader far greater than Mede could ever hope to be. One that can send the Thalmor flying with a simple word, and who can command dragons.

The inaction against the Thalmor will be remedied as soon as I take charge. From that point my Empire will begin mobilizing for an assault. That's why I can't let the Elder Council stay around. They allowed Mede's weakness and failed to convince him to get ready for the next round of war, so I can't leave things to them either.

Ah yes, but this secret is known to all surviving DB members.
Who is to say one of them won't betray you in the future by divulging this dirty little secret?

The Emperor was weak. If I were RPing by character would figure out that someone with enough military and political power has ordered the Emperor's assassination. I agreed.

Killing the Listener !?! Oh, that will surerly cause the "Wrath of Sithis". Besides, who said that they know what you did ? Even of so, they don't care about it, the contract has been executed, what you have done with contract giver after buiseness is only up to you.

I personally think Titus has tried his best in this situation in Skyrim.
We must understand that he is the Emperor of Cyrodill after all, and there may be other urgent matters that needs his attention too in other Provinces of Tamriel that we may not be aware of.

I think most Usurpers will think this way, that they could change the situation by disposing of the emperor, but in the end can 1 person really change the fate of the world?
Granted you have dragons on your side, but it will very likely be a regime ruled by dragon fear rather then respect IMO.

Who is to stop others from hiring assassins to kill you then? Every night you'll be tossing and turning around in bed
thinking who will be the one who finally cuts your head off.

I have a feeling Titus feels like this right now, which is perhaps the reason why he wanted the death. He's probably too stressed up already lol

It's simple really. The Emperor was one man. The Empire is an idea, made up of many people. Political climates shift constantly. I just saw my murdering the Emperor as letting out the stale mead a filling the jug with who knows what. I also like the "Chaos" theory that someone had mentioned. When things are engulfed in uncertainty and despair, it makes things much easier the control. (Well, for evil characters)

It depends on the order you do the questlines. For instance Lily won the war for the imperials, and then they turned around and killed her Dark Brothers and Sisters, so she flipped out and went all "a woman scorned" on their asses and killed their emperor.

I think both sides have discrepancies in conjunction with the DB questline.

If you're an Imperial supporter (of any rank), then it doesn't make an awful lost of sense for obvious reasons.
And if you've completed the Stormcloak questline, then why oh why would the Emperor visit Skyrim with only a relatively small personal guard, cousin dead or not?

Roman emperors murdered by Roman soldiers during Roman civil wars:

• Didus Julianus (died in 193)
  
• Maximinus Thrax (238)
  
• Trebonius Gallus (253)
  
• Aemilianus (253)
  
• Gallienus (268)
  
• Vlorianus (276)
  
• Probus (282)

This doesn't count the emperors who were killed because they lost a civil war, the emperors killed in coups, or the emperors murdered by soldiers or the Praetorian Guard during peacetime; the list would be much longer if those were included. There were even soldiers who did a paid assassination on an emperor: Valentinian III died in 455 because a senator took out a contract in revenge after the emperor [censored] the senator's wife.

Nasty business, but plenty of historic precedents.

My dark brotherhood character is on the side of the Empire, but he still killed Mede. One Emporer isn't the same thing as the entire empire itself.

Ohhh yea i suppose it would make sense if u put it that way yes.

I killed the emperor first tho, so im now torn whether i should support Imperial or Stormcloaks lol.

But then again i might go neutral and just shoot everyone in the knee lol

It's like supporting a group you like and it's ways. Just it's leader may not be someone you like.

Forget justifying the db and the empire, I can't even justify joining the imperials.

Too weak, too much of a disgrace signing the WGC, considering Tiber Septim (Talos) founded the current empire. Allowing the dominion to slaughter innocent Talos worshippers when he founded the third empire, when so many of the empire secretly worship Talos.