The title says it all. I'm curious to see how others in the community feel about this. It seemed that grunt was going for a response to cowboy but only using military hardware. I could be wrong but I remember somewhere that the standard sniper rifle was used in the military prior to and during the great war. So if this is considered to be "Military Hardware" should it get the 25% damage increase?

It's not so much military hardware as lowbrow military hardware. Things like service rifles, LMGs, .45 ACP weapons, etc.

I mean, laser and plasma rifles were both used before the war, but they don't count for Grunt because they're too high tech. Ditto miniguns. Sniper rifles, being highly finnicky and precision-oriented wouldn't count either.

Does a sniper rifle really need that? How invincible do you want to be? lol

Seriously though...when I think of a grunt, they don't usually get awesome weapons like sniper rifles and the like.It's usually as basic as you could get.

Sniper Rifles were hardly a Grunt weapon though. Snipers are specialists


Besides its powerful enough anyway

I see your point and to that i say, would a grunt also wield an awesome weapon such as a marksmans carbine or a grenade launcher?

Personally im fine with the way grunt is right now, aka makes chance's knife more beastly then before :biggrin:

that perk gives you a bonus on grenade launcher? wtf?

Yup!!!.
.45 Auto Pistol/SMG
9mm Pistol/SMG
Service Rifles
Assault Carbines
Marksman Carbines
Light Machine Guns
Frag Grenades
Grenade Rifles
Grenade Launchers
Combat knives

As well as all of the unique variants

Damage buffs from perks etc.. are explained by additional skill, rather than some magic means that the bullets somehow get more lethal. It's kinda like this: Grunt means that you are a well trained infantryman, and through practice, you have greater control of the weapon and are able to hit the more lethal areas of any given target area. A regular hit to the chest does not neccessarily mean you hit a vital organ. With damage buffs like Grunt, it means you are bette able to hit those leathal areas, so therefore the higher damage. While I don't neccessarily agree with this mechanic, that is how it is explained. It's the same rationale used for higher damage for higher skill level.

Whether it should apply to sniper weapons is a matter of taste. Since the perk is designed to focus on infantry training (I pretty much named it, so I should know) so it should apply to *common* infantry weapons. Snipers and sniper rifles are not common. There is a great amount of extra training required to make an effective sniper. since all sniper shots are basically well aimed shots, the extra damage caused by the better shot placement is already inherent in the base weapon damage. Why else would a .308 round fired from the same length barrel as the Automatic Rifle have higher damage in the Sniper Rifle?

I think, from a gameplay and balance standpoint, Josh got this perk right. It was designed to make lower end/more common military type weapons more competitive with cowboy weapons/the cowboy perk. It does that. Sniper weapons already had higher base damage or crit numbers and already had their own perk (I know, who uses vats on sniper builds? But meh, at least it's something) So looking at it from a practical real life standpoint, and from a game balalnce standpoint, it makes the most sense as it is. What they should do is have the Sniper Perk not only give you an accuracy boost in vats, but also outside of vats and/or add to the max engagement range.

-Gunny out. (former MOS - 0341)

It sure does, http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/716/Vietnam_War_Infantryman_Loading_an_M79_Grenade_Launcher.jpg.

A trained Marine infantryman has basic knowledge of:

Service rifle
Service pistol (depends on MOS)
Grenade launcher
AT rocket
Demo rocket
Mines
Grenades
Combat knife/bayonet
H2H
Squad automatic weapons

Some infantry Marines also are trained in:
Mortars
Heavy machineguns
AT missile
Automatic grenade launcher
Sniper weapon system/DMR systems
Demolitions

I'm not real certain exactly what they're training on in whatever they call the Infantry Training School now. I'm guessing it mostly the same as I've listed, but there may be a few new weapon systems I'm forgetting.

-gunny out.

I love the fact that with the last patch on 5mm ammo combined with the grunt perk, it made the Assault Carbine from a semi-useless weapon to a top-tier weapon.
I now use it quite often.
And that what the Grunt perk was supposed to do.

Why they gave the grenade launcher that perk I will never know, it's already powerful, although I never use it. I prefer the Grenade Machinegun.

But at least frag grenades actually kill stuff like its supposed to with the grunt perk. I used to only use plasma grenades, but now frag grenades are viable now.

I play on very hard, and before the last patch and grunt, frag grenades didn't really kill anything.

Even without the Grunt perk the Assault Carbine was turned into a oustanding weapon with the latest patch (as well the Minigun).
I mean, this is a high tier weapon, it should have more power and adding -10 DT to the ammo make it so.

I'm roleplaying a "Grunt type" build, I use .45 SMG or LMG when going to a full auto weapon and the Survivalist Rifle when needing long range shots.
Always carring some grenades and sometimes switching the auto weapons for a grenade rifle (Thump-Thump).
As a side-arm I use a .45 Auto Pistol and keep Chance's Knife for melee combat
Since this weapons have crap or normal critical chance and damage (with the exception of Chance's Knife) and explosives have 0 critical damage my luck is 5 (after the implant, started with 4).

For armor is Combat Mk II and Desert Ranger combat helmet.
Hey, I'm a soldier!

No sniper and nothing else, regular infantryman aren't trained for using those.

Come to think of it the 10mm pistol should be effected by the Grunt perk as it was the standard sidearm in the U.S instead of the 9mm. (as part of the divergence).

But no the sniper rifle should not be included because it doesn't feel or sound like a grunt weapon.