[Rudi Carter]

> There are MMOs that allow this.
This doesn't seem to be the case.

I only know of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRAjG6_R6Tg that does this, but it is definitely possible. They even added it quite late in the game.

[Chris Jones]

Rift is doing fine....

Rift is arguably the biggest failure of the three(though Warhammer's fall was a huge slap in the face to GW). Not because it didn't make any money, but because it very vocally claimed itself to be a WoW killer("Your not in Azeroth anymore..." really?). At least SWTOR tried to keep its public expectations reasonable(if you want to call 2M subscribers a reasonable goal).

[glot]

Rift is doing fine....

So good they refuse to divulge subscription numbers and the only numbers that can be found is 1 million people signing up before launch?

[maddison]

I only know of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRAjG6_R6Tg that does this, but it is definitely possible. They even added it quite late in the game.

Planet Side 1 and 2.

[Matt Gammond]

I'm very disappointed that there will not be a first-person perspective option. I really find it hard to believe actually. TOR uses the same engine and has both third and first-person perspective as does EQ, DAOC, WOW, AOC, and LOTRO. I thought that choice was fairly standard these days.

No first-person?! NO FIRST PERSON! Say me you are just kidding - a TES without first-person sounds impossible. It is just like a car without tyres.

[James Baldwin]

It really disturbs me to see publishers fall for the same trap over and over again. Games try and try to capture part of that WoW pie, and they always walk away with little more than crumbs. Warhammer couldn't do it. Neither could Rift. Freakin' Star Wars couldn't even do it. Get. It. Through. Your. Heads. There is no such thing as a WoW killer. There is no such thing as a rival, even. Comparing yourself to or patterning yourself after WoW is a recipe for mediocrity and failure. I know it's too late to hear this now, but that's what you get for keeping the fanbase out of the loop for most of the development. You wanted to develop in a vacuum and you got what you wanted. A vacuum, devoid of any substance save for the ego and greed that drives one to make a WoW clone. Congrats.

You know who managed to attract and hold a fanbase for years(still going), and has been experiencing steady, modest growth throughout their game's existence? CCP, the creators of Eve Online. Now, this game will never have the numbers of WoW(but see above for my thoughts on that) because the premise and gameplay are not attractive to as large an audience, but those that do play the game continue to do so because there isn't another game quite like it. Whatever it is that does it for these players, Eve does well, and so the game has not gone the F2P path, nor does it lie broken and abandoned like so many challengers to WoW's crown.

You want to succeed in the long term? Be different. It's not like you don't have a source of inspiration to base engaging gameplay on(hint: you named your game after it).

Its heartening to see I'm not alone in my thoughts. I got some stout allies with me.

[Emily Shackleton]

No first-person?! NO FIRST PERSON! Say me you are just kidding - a TES without first-person sounds impossible. It is just like a car without tyres.

Its just like Redguard.

[Abel Vazquez]

Its just like Redguard.

Which was the weakest link in the series.

[Rebecca Dosch]

Its just like Redguard.

But Redguard was adventure game - it wasn't rpg. In adventure game it isn't so big deal but when it's trying to be rpg then third-person-only ruins the feel of it.

[ruCkii]

Have they actually confirmed that there's no first person? If so then I am disappointed. An Elderscrolls game without first person is going to feel unusual.

[Spooky Angel]

Have they actually confirmed that there's no first person? If so then I am disappointed. An Elderscrolls game without first person is going to feel unusual.

I'm not sure if its confirmed or not. If they do have a 3rd person I suppose it will largely be link how 1st person is in ToR or how third person was in Oblivion and Morrowind, where it will feel tacked on.

[Mizz.Jayy]

But Redguard was adventure game - it wasn't rpg. In adventure game it isn't so big deal but when it's trying to be rpg then third-person-only ruins the feel of it.

But its not really RPG, its MMO.

I meant with that Redguard line that I see the game in the same category.
Not as part of the main TES RPG series, but still in the same universe and (hopefully) adhering to its lore.
Ill get upset if the lore is mangled overly, though so far that doesnt seem to have happened yet.

[.X chantelle .x Smith]

So good they refuse to divulge subscription numbers and the only numbers that can be found is 1 million people signing up before launch?

So doing fine means they must have 10 million subscribers or else it's a bust?

[Vicki Blondie]

- Dodge an incoming spell (dice rolls prevent that)

They add a block and an interrupt mechanic. Also, because of the large scale of the game (and inevitable high latency), they don't really have a choice in this matter. Try aiming a fireball or an arrow at 200+ ms.

- Use the environments (static environment never changes, except through phasing)

Well, no.. They can add a few usable things that respawn over time. I don't know if you play swtor, but there are some tanks around that you can explode to freeze your opponents, blind them, etc.

-Hit and run strategies (you'l just get destroyed by aggro)

They said they wanted to break the holy trinity by getting rid of tanks. Your enemies will probably have a range after which they'll stop following you. So imagine you're a thief and you're trying to beat a mob of 4 enemies. You just sneak attack one, stun-kill the other, stealth away and repeat. If that's your idea of hit and run.

- Outsmart your enemies (abuse policies prevent that)

You outsmart them by using your abilities, be it a snare (aka kiting), a trap (they mentioned the oil being set ablaze, you have to make them walk in the oil) or crowd control. Of course they don't want you to abuse bugs, if that' what you mean by "abuse".

- Manage your abilities with freedom (timers and cooldowns)

In skyrim, you can't just spam fireballs (unless you have 100% reduce cost for destro spells), you have to manage your magicka.

- Circle around your foes to hit them in the back (doesn'tmatter where you hit them)

Well… I don't know what other mmos you played or if you ever played a "rogue" class (or stealthy skirmisher) in any of them. Position is often important for these characters and they will unlock some abilities while behind their enemies (things like backstab). Even in LoL, a character like Shaco deals 20% more damage when behind an enemy (they could add somethingl ike that). Although I agree it's too bad you can't shoot arrows in the knees.

- Stagger or throw your enemies around the environment (invisible walls and mechanics replaced by stunlocks and crowd control)

Knockbacks are prominent in SWTOR and they can be used to push enemies into death pits, traps or simply gain some distance. They are also more and more frequent in WoW (elemental shaman in arathi basin or in blade's edge arena). They also intend to make enemies stagger if you block a power attack.

- Be self-sufficient (you can't go anywhere or stand a chance to defeat every enemy, unless you have a group)

Well, yeah... Though you always depended on NPCs for supplies and gold, etc. Think of it as switching from solo dungeon crawling to more of a Dungeons and Dragons experience. In my opinion, it's not a bad thing at all. I think it's more realistic to plow through a cavern of bandits or goblins as a group than alone (unless you are a stealthy character trying to assassinate a target).

- Aim and fire ranged weapons wherever you want (must target a monster)

Maybe (but I doubt it) they will include a few "skill shots" where you have to aim. There will probably be targeted aoe and cone effects. Also, good thing because of lag.

- Combat animations do not collide and have no weight (it seems like you're always hitting the air)

You mean like in skyrim, barring the occasionnal not so great kill animation? Also, there are pretty cool combat animations in swtor.

- Enemies don't get smarter, they only stand there having progressively larger amounts of hitpoints.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but you get that in every single video games, not just mmo. They did say they wanted to make the AI much more efficient, like fighting other players. That probably means the creeps will use more abilities and not just auto-attack, which is refreshing.

- Monsters keep spawning endlessly, so there's no sense of actually killing anything or causing any impact, as things will be revived every 2 minutes.

Can't argue with that. It's a necessary evil.

- NPC foes are just cookie-cutter with slighty varied abilities sharing the same trash mob AI, standing around and waiting to be killed. Except for bosses, which have endless hp pools.

I reiterate : they want to make AI good. They also don't like the model of "waiting to be pulled" and want you to do something like engage an entire room at a time. I agree that bosses in MMO are just big chunks of hp and stay out of fire. Or have a lot of adds. Good thing I only like questing and PvP'ing.

- You can't develop your own combat strategy, you have a set of skills and are expected to consistently activate all of them to defeat any particular enemy.

Well, yes and no. You don't have to use all of your abilities and the timing to using them can be very important.

[Chris Ellis]

But its not really RPG, its MMO.

I meant with that Redguard line that I see the game in the same category.
Not as part of the main TES RPG series, but still in the same universe and (hopefully) adhering to its lore.
Ill get upset if the lore is mangled overly, though so far that doesnt seem to have happened yet.

I though it was going to be MMORPG which means it takes main rpg elements in the game. That makes me to categorize it closer to Battlespire than Redguard. Anyway it's sad if it isn't enough to be enjoyable TES game - even it isn't part of the main saga.

[Pawel Platek]

It really disturbs me to see publishers fall for the same trap over and over again. Games try and try to capture part of that WoW pie, and they always walk away with little more than crumbs. Warhammer couldn't do it. Neither could Rift. Freakin' Star Wars couldn't even do it. Get. It. Through. Your. Heads. There is no such thing as a WoW killer. There is no such thing as a rival, even. Comparing yourself to or patterning yourself after WoW is a recipe for mediocrity and failure. I know it's too late to hear this now, but that's what you get for keeping the fanbase out of the loop for most of the development. You wanted to develop in a vacuum and you got what you wanted. A vacuum, devoid of any substance save for the ego and greed that drives one to make a WoW clone. Congrats.

You know who managed to attract and hold a fanbase for years(still going), and has been experiencing steady, modest growth throughout their game's existence? CCP, the creators of Eve Online. Now, this game will never have the numbers of WoW(but see above for my thoughts on that) because the premise and gameplay are not attractive to as large an audience, but those that do play the game continue to do so because there isn't another game quite like it. Whatever it is that does it for these players, Eve does well, and so the game has not gone the F2P path, nor does it lie broken and abandoned like so many challengers to WoW's crown.

You want to succeed in the long term? Be different. It's not like you don't have a source of inspiration to base engaging gameplay on(hint: you named your game after it).

This xINF.

[x a million...]

Things you can't do in queue based MMO combat:

- Dodge an incoming spell (dice rolls prevent that)
- Use the environments (static environment never changes, except through phasing)
- Hit and run strategies (you'll just get destroyed by aggro)
- Outsmart your enemies (abuse policies prevent that)
- Manage your abilities with freedom (timers and cooldowns)
- Circle around your foes to hit them in the back (doesn't matter where you hit them)
- Stagger or throw your enemies around the environment (invisible walls and mechanics replaced by stunlocks and crowd control)
- Be self-sufficient (you can't go anywhere or stand a chance to defeat every enemy, unless you have a group)
- Aim and fire ranged weapons wherever you want (must target a monster)
- Combat animations do not collide and have no weight (it seems like you're always hitting the air)
- Enemies don't get smarter, they only stand there having progressively larger amounts of hitpoints.
- Monsters keep spawning endlessly, so there's no sense of actually killing anything or causing any impact, as things will be revived every 2 minutes.
- NPC foes are just cookie-cutter with slighty varied abilities sharing the same trash mob AI, standing around and waiting to be killed. Except for bosses, which have endless hp pools.
- You can't develop your own combat strategy, you have a set of skills and are expected to consistently activate all of them to defeat any particular enemy.

Three words:

Guild.Wars.2.

[Sun of Sammy]

Three words:

Guild.Wars.2.

And this game, not sure if it ripped off GW2 though since it was in developement b4 GW2.

[D IV]

I wouldn't rule out first person just yet.

There are quite a few games where you can switch between camera perspectives. You can even play WoW in first person mode.

[liz barnes]

I wouldn't rule out first person just yet.

There are quite a few games where you can switch between camera perspectives. You can even play WoW in first person mode.

And how effective is that again?

[katie TWAVA]

You guys really expected it to have First person perspective?
Dont expect it to be exactly like the main series becouse it wont.

[Melung Chan]

And how effective is that again?

Just as effective as it has been in every other MMO that had it.

Not very and caused everyone to run aorund like headless chickens.

[Ludivine Poussineau]

Things you can't do in queue based MMO combat:

- Dodge an incoming spell (dice rolls prevent that)
- Use the environments (static environment never changes, except through phasing)
- Hit and run strategies (you'll just get destroyed by aggro)
- Outsmart your enemies (abuse policies prevent that)
- Manage your abilities with freedom (timers and cooldowns)
- Circle around your foes to hit them in the back (doesn't matter where you hit them)
- Stagger or throw your enemies around the environment (invisible walls and mechanics replaced by stunlocks and crowd control)
- Be self-sufficient (you can't go anywhere or stand a chance to defeat every enemy, unless you have a group)
- Aim and fire ranged weapons wherever you want (must target a monster)
- Combat animations do not collide and have no weight (it seems like you're always hitting the air)
- Enemies don't get smarter, they only stand there having progressively larger amounts of hitpoints.
- Monsters keep spawning endlessly, so there's no sense of actually killing anything or causing any impact, as things will be revived every 2 minutes.
- NPC foes are just cookie-cutter with slighty varied abilities sharing the same trash mob AI, standing around and waiting to be killed. Except for bosses, which have endless hp pools.
- You can't develop your own combat strategy, you have a set of skills and are expected to consistently activate all of them to defeat any particular enemy.

if you read the article, the game has active blocking, dodging, stagger, no aggro, etc.

[James Wilson]

Nothing wrong with hotkeys. I wish Skyrim had a better system of them

[Leah]

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1371449-3rd-person-hotkey-mmo-confirmed/

I'm still disappointed in this turn of events. I'll follow the game, but I won't be to happy on it.

I'm disappointed you don't know 99.99999999% of MMOs are like this, but (and this is addressing all haters) "it's a WoW clone 0MGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG HATEZ SPAMZ"