You don't get to tell people that. That is projection and it is an unsavoury thing to do.

OP has certain problems with the direction the game has taken. He is perfectly entitled to his opinion. If you wish to disagree with him, that is fine, but you do not get to invent motives for him. You're not a telepath.

You also don't get to tell people if they are a fan or not. Debate a topic on merit please, don't resort to attacking the character of the poster.

Fallout games have never railroaded a character to the extent that Fallout 4 does. Previously we got a small bit of background which defined what we were, we were never told who we were, as this game does.

It doesn't work like that. You have to stay true to the core what Fallout was imagined as for it to be Fallout. You don't get to, as an example, make it a pirate sim set in the 1700s with the only thing in common the name Fallout. At that point it is simply not Fallout anymore, no matter who owns it or who calls it what.

Let me give you an example, the DC universe and the New 52. a lot of people HATE the new 52, despise it with a passion.....but despite all the hate, despite all the people claiming it is not DC.....it is...It is what the DC universe has become and there is nothing anyone can say that goes against that.

also, in fallout 1, you HAD to be a vault dweller that cared enough about the vault to leave it willingly to go get the water chip, and then be a decent enough person to go fight the Master. That tells me that the protag was a good person, at least to some extent.

Whether you agree or not, Fallout 4 IS WHAT FALLOUT SERIES IS and has become, it is IN the fallout Universe, it IS a fallout game, and it is FALLOUT!

also, if he really was a "fan" of the series and cared about the lore and the problems with fallout 4, the things he would have brought up, he did not, go talk to anyone who has ever actually played the old fallout games and the changes to lore, and they will mention what the rest of us have mentioned (Jet being pre-war, T-60, etc), he mentioned only ONE thing that had to do with fallout lore, and he GOT IT WRONG.

Now, he could have played the old fallout games and liked them a lot, but to say he was a hardcoe fan is obtuse to say the least.

I was going to say prepare thyself OP, but I'm far too late

There are these things called logical fallacies. Inventing motives for people is one of them. When you are debating someone you should do so on the merits of their arguments. You should not attempt to invalidate their argument using logical fallacies such as projecting your own notions of what the other person is thinking onto them or attacking his character instead of talking about the argument.

If you do these things then you are no longer talking about the issue at hand. You have instead derailed the conversation.

Sure, if Bethesda would decide to replace guns with swords, place the game in the 1700s and call it Fallout then they can. But for all intents and purposes the only Fallout thing would then be the name of the game and it would not be Fallout anymore, because it would not be an RPG about surviving in a post-nuclear war retro-future wasteland.

Childhood goes up in flames and first argument is because in 2015 a videogame character is voiced.

Ah yes the same nonsensical reasons that I've already read a few times.

This. THe only Fallout with different endings is New Vegas. The rest all give you the same outcome.

Tactics has different endings.

Please, lets not make our hatred for VP a Fallout thing. Its being adopted on most RPG theses days as a dumbing down of games for console adaptation. Its essentially another element of RPG they are taking away. The way its going atm, soon an immersive FPS like Doom and Half Life will be called RPG.

Me too, I want that to happen as well, at the very least for some important side missions.

I was glad to see just a tiny bit of it in NV with the NCR camp quest where you had to catch the guy that was leaking out info in the radio tower.

I feel a lack of urgency in a game is a negative point. Not that I wanna be rushed through the whole game, but if everything is just to be done at a leisurely pace, then everything seems a bit inconsequential.

Um....OP....

I fail to see what, if anything, this has to do with lore. This is a design change. Do I particularly agree with it? No, but it's not the end of the world.

Hard to say Bethesda ruined this, what with Fallout 2's protagonist being, you know, The Chosen One.

Vaults have ALWAYS been social experiments, dude. Hell, the first Vault we come across in Fallout is Vault 15, which was intentionally stocked with a hodgepodge of varying cultures to see what'd happen confining them in such a small space.

Maybe so, but I don't care about Power Armor as a usable object I prefer the Pre-War combat armours.

Uh....You're not? Just like in the old Fallouts you -can- go toe to toe with a high tier enemy at Level 1, but you really shouldn't. With enough ammo and stims you can win, but at Level 1 you likely won't have those things. Unless you count killing Molerats and standard raiders as 'uber-curb-stomper'.

Right. Forgot. More options. Baaaad.

"It's not my idea of Fallout, therefore it's not Fallout!"

How has it destroyed your childhood, when by my count you would have been 21 when fallout 1 came out?

So? What would be wrong with that? Even though that's absolutely untrue if you consider the overwhelming success of all the Kickstarted tb/iso games getting funded.

Eh, I disagree but it's basically a red herring anyway.

I'd agree with this. I have some pretty intense critiques of Fallout 4 already, but at the very least it does seem like they were at least trying to understand Fallout canon.

Neither did Black Isle. Point? You're right though, what they have is called 'Fallout' indeed. It's just too bad that what it actually is, is not.

It's real Fallout. Your eventually going to have to just admit it because Bethesda is intelligent enough a company to not go backwards to the obsolete original formula.

^ this guy, lol.

The 2-D isometric "Look at all the story!" But strongly lackimg in both a good world and good gameplay ofcourse. Pretty obvious to get.

Debates, debates never changes

Oh, duh, silly me. I must have dreamt that Wasteland 2, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun, Shadowrun Hong Kong, Divinity: Original Sin, Battletech and more yet to come have all been overwhelmingly over-funded via Kickstarter.

And did any of those games sell as well as say Skyrim? Or even as well as 4 is so far? No? Ok then.

Not sure you understand the word "obsolete", friend. None of these games are AAA games made by AAA studios. Niche does not equal obsolete. Otherwise we'd all say Justin Bieber is our favorite musician.

I understand the definition completely, and the original formula for the series fits the bill. You keep changing the subject because you know I'm right theres 0 logical reason for Bethesda to do the series in ways different than they currently are.

From a business standpoint, certainly not. But I never claimed otherwise. Troika, had they picked the series up like they were hoping...would have made, however, a REAL Fallout game. So here we are, lamenting The Elder Scrolls: Fallout Edition since all we ever wanted was Fallout, precious.

-I'm confused as to what you mean by "choose your own destiny". There's pleanty of choice in the game, IMO. Can you clarify what you meant here?

-I'm pretty sure Vaults as experiments was established in the original games.

-Power armor works different now, it's now a game mechanic instead of just another high-level armor. I personally think this is an improvement that makes power armor more meaningful. Also, they don't exactly hand it to you on a silver platter, the set you have at the start has practically no fuel and no way to repair it in addition to the fact that the starting set is pretty rusted already.

-I died a lot in the early game. Defeating the Deathclaw in Concord is supposed to be a boss battle, a way to cap off the opening of the game. I still found myself being beat to dust by Yao Gui and Deathclaws and the freaking Mirelurk queens once my suit's core ran out.

Ah back to the ol "not a real Fallout" copout again huh? You seem to be unable to come up with real points to make.

"Back"? We never left that crib, son. You can count on that. Here's another point: Bethesda's 'Fallout' is real. Just as real as Starbucks' espresso.