Weird.

The biggest complaint about Morrowind, I ever heard of, was that it wasn't Daggerfall
The biggest complaint about Oblivion, I ever heard about, was that is wasn't Morrowind.
The biggest complaint about Skyrim, I have heard about, is that it isn't Morrowind.

The combat has gotten better with each iteration. As I said, it's still not quite there yet, which is why I use mods, but it's definitely getting better. Regardless, I definitely do not want standard MMO combat. If I did, I would play WoW, since my old guild migrated back to there from their brief stint in SWTOR.

Skyrim's combat may be better then past games but its still god-awful, and the vast majority of people on non-TES forums agree.

It is easily one of the single worst combat systems in a RPG, Mass Effect 1 beats it in bad level, but not by much.

Well, then what do you want? Maybe we can agree that simply copying Skyrim's combat into an MMO would be less than entertaining, as it doesn't require a lot of strategy. Even if they went for FPS action combat, they would have to reinvent it substantially. What could they have done better that Bethesda couldn't do with Skyrim, in your opinion?
I mean, I understand when people get tired of a specific gameplay, but there has to be something else instead.

I'm just tired of MMOs, I do not have time to play them the way I enjoy playing them.
I will probably skip TESO and I will be awaiting quality games that are anything but MMOs.
I'm just looking forward to my annual WoW subscription to run out and that will be the end of my MMO career, because that is what MMOs are, work.

ok. so why did you come here?

I couldn't be happier. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It wouldn't require reinvention at all. Do you know what the combat mods mostly do to make Skyrim's combat more fun? Rebalancing. Make stamina more important. Make combat a a bit more deadly for both sides. Change up the staggering mechanic a bit. Give a couple new maneuvers. Duke Patrick's mod is throwing in locational damage. These are not mind blowing advancements here. They're tweaks. You know what makes Dark Souls' combat so much better than Skyrim's? Timing and placement matter more. That's about it, mechanically. You know what makes Mount & Blade's combat different? Directional attacks and parrying. That's it.

You people are going on about how horrible TES combat is in comparison to games that work almost the exactly same way, mechanically. There is less differences between the mechanics of Skyrim and Dark Souls than between most WoW clones. It's all in the balancing of those mechanics(which Dark Souls does do better).

How on earth do people jump from hotbars to "WoW clone"?

I really just don't get it. There are about, I don't know, 500 steps that you missed in between those two things.

If ES got dakr soul's combat I think I would stop playing the series all togeather becuase of how annoyingly bad Dark Souls combat is

I actually cheated and skipped to where the article explicitly described ES:O as having "World of Warcraft-style mechanics." The author could either be lying or stupid, but if that's the case, you have to ignore the article entirely and just pretend that all we have to go on is a pointless announcement video.

Maybe you just don't like action RPGs.

Ooooh, I get it. So if something has "World of Warcraft-style mechanics," it means that everything in the game is exactly the same as WoW. See, I thought that the fact that multiple features that are totally different from WoW would make it different. Or the fact that "World of Warcraft-style mechanics" could refer to any one of a thousand or so gameplay mechanics present in WoW

But now I'm clear. If any game designer mentions the name of the single most popular MMORPG ever made, they're clearly just going to copy it.

FYI: Hotbar combat is still button mashing, people. Whether done in a first person active combat, or otherwise, you're still pressing buttons just as much. And atleast in my case, first person active combat doesn't mean I am any less tactical or strategic in how I combine my spells and abilities, and use of my sword.

For an actual answer to this thread, I'm not very pleased...

I like action RPGs, just not bad ones.

the only reason Dark souls was called "good" was becuase it was so unbalanced against you that it made the game stupidly hard for most people.

In a era where games are made so anyone can play gamers will ignore the massive flaws of a game just becuase it has one feature diffrent then anything else.

Missing the point. It's not that the game is going to copy all of WoW's features verbatim. The problem is that, judging by the article, the game won't do enough to distinguish itself from WoW mechanically, which is exactly the problem that has caused all of the other failed MMOs to crash. That is what is meant by "WoW clone." I can't think of a single WoW clone out there that didn't change something, but if they don't change enough to feel completely different, why would anyone leave WoW for it? You cannot overcome WoW's gravity well by aping it or playing it safe. This has been proven over and over again.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Here's some other activities that could be described as button mashing:

Playing the piano
Data entry
Writing a novel
Playing a fighting game
Playing an action game
Playing Missile Command
Responding to a post on a message board.
Playing the crappy "Test Your Might" minigame in Mortal Kombat
and many many others...

Are all of these supposed to be of equal enjoyment to all people because they use similar methods of input? 1st person combat with 1:1 input to action ration with low latency and attack collision detection is not the same as third person combat with autocombos, coolddowns, target locks and pure stat calculated combat resolution.

the GI article if anything shows it is using enough of GW2's features to make a reasonably noticeable diffrence in gameplay.

it was poor wording on their part, but you didnt read enough since he goes further into detail about the mechanics, which are completely different than wow.

im going to assume you're not very familiar with wow.
wow is a lot like morrowind in that most of your dodge/evade/blocks are random, based on a dice roll of your stats of dodge/block etc
likewise attacking is determined by your + damage stats and your "accuracy" stats. your character has a basic autoattack he will do between your hotkey attacks/moves. the exception being casters, who dont have one.

what they talked about in the article is basically the polar opposite of that.

Weird(I keep having to use that word with you).

So you are claiming TES combat to be terribad based upon majority(claimed... I haven't seen it) opinion, and then claiming Dark Souls to be bad in spite of majority opinion. The main claim I've seen people make of Dark Souls is that it was "hard, but fair."

To be honest I never played WoW but have for many years played Dekaron from when it used to be called 2moons and the top view and mouse pointing combat with hotbar and over top art. If TESO has any of that then it not for me. I like to have a roof over my head in first person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaArq8IS7JI

Go on a non-Bethesda forum like the Escapist, or places like Kotaku, GT, PC Gamer, and ask is the combat in ES bad......... you will get replies.

Also yes the combat in Dark Souls is bad, becuase it is similar to ES combat just balanced diffrently, and by that I mean poorly., and by that I mean just as poorly as the ES but in a diffrent way.

The piano is evolved from the harpsichord and makes a different sound, but the player is performing the same actions regardless, albeit with more complexity. A piano player might prefer the more modern instrument, but would likely enjoy playing a harpsichord more than, say, a tuba. Similarly, Daggerfall's combat evolved into Morrowind's, then into Oblivion's and on into Skyrim's. WoW's combat evolved from its predecessors' and other games will(and are) evolving from that. Or rather they would if WoW would stop eating each game that tried to succeed it.

My point is that a game who's gameplay is an evolution of WoW's is not a game with gameplay that is in opposition. And evolution is not enough. Some change is not enough. To escape from WoW's shadow you have to be distinct enough from WoW so that you can't be pigeonholed as "like WoW, but." And going off this article, ES:O is not distinct in this way.

lol at the Escapist. Ask them about any popular game and they will tell you the exact same thing. They will also tell you the exact opposite thing. I haven't gone onto GT or PC Gamer's forums, but Kotaku is just as bad. So many [Censored]people who unreasonably defend against any criticism and refuse to admit fault in their chosen game and haters on those sites. Well now I know which camp you fall under.

For the record, if this game did not have the words "Elder Scrolls" in it, I wouldn't care what kind of gameplay it had. But it does, so I am voicing my very strong opinion that the path they are taking is going to result in a huge flop because I actually care about the series, and would hate to see that happen. I don't seethe at the very thought of an MMO, because I think that the gameplay and skill system of TES could fit an MMO and be quite fun as long as the developers weren't trying to ape MMO giants of the past.

Ultimately, I know there's not a thing I can do about it at this point due to the amount of resources they had already poured into development before the announcement, but I will probably keep on plugging my opinion until it finally does flop, and then I'll just shrug and relegate it to the pile of past disappointments like SWTOR.

Edit: what a weird word to be censored...

The Soul games have vastly superior combat to any TES.

TES has some of the worst known combat in RPGs.

Right becuase any site that isnt the site dedicated to that game is full of haters?

This argument is silly becuase your just gonna claim everyone on every other site is haters.


TES combat ranks up there with MAss Effect 1 for bad combat.

What? TES combat is the best I've ever seen.