Thanks for the correction (i had only done a quick search), which actually just makes it even worse.

Well, they could stop making games designed for the 360, but that won't happen. Early word on the next-gen Xbox isn't confidence-inducing when it comes to pushing the technology much either. The majority of PC games will be forever held back by them. Thank you Microsoft.

Uldred

Its not a scam technology.....but it's far from being ready....give it another 5 years and we might be able to use something from it.


Looks more like it would be good for a rendering technology rather then game engine.


As someone studying to go into this sort of field, their claims arent fanasty.....it just isnt as good as they make it sound.....but it is a completely new and unique way of doing things.....and inovation is what drives the next era of technology.

Time will tell. A lot of console owners have buyer's remorse if you just look around. At least many of the Xbox owners do. A lot of them wish they went with PS3 or PC instead after years of abuse from Microsoft. Not the only reason either. It's subtle, but it's there.

Seriously. Live is a paid service SLATHERED in ads. Unbelievable. You have to scroll past ads to play a game off of a disc with the new dashboard, LOL. And afaik they can't be turned off.

What a load of rubbish. I have no buyers remorse for my XBox. The new dash while it does have adds allows you to open any 'blade' you chose as your start page so you can set it to the game page and be gaming with one press of the 'A' button, hell you can even set it to bypass the dash completely if there is a disc in the drive.

As for live, I've used both Xbox live and PSN and I find the xbox to much more stable, easier to use, more user friendly and more secure than the PSN. I only play the exclusives on my PS3 everything else is 360 all the way.

What a load of rubbish. I have no buyers remorse for my XBox. The new dash while it does have adds allows you to open any 'blade' you chose as your start page so you can set it to the game page and be gaming with one press of the 'A' button, hell you can even set it to bypass the dash completely if there is a disc in the drive.

As for live, I've used both Xbox live and PSN and I find the xbox to much more stable, easier to use, more user friendly and more secure than the PSN. I only play the exclusives on my PS3 everything else is 360 all the way.

and thats where you lost me. ^ graphics =/= immersion.

several things go into immersion, and the priority of which is subjective depending upon who your preferences, graphics is just one of them.

I wish the actuall gameplay of games mattered any more, but apparently not. since the majority of gamers only care about graphics being improved, while settling for rehashed or even dumbed down content.

As some one who has a speciality in the area of game engine programming (and AI).
I do know alittle about this technique.
It is possible, it can work. It creates 3d worlds in a very different way.
I am however suprised of just how well it worked, but it's not outside of the realms of possiblities.
We've gone as far as we really can expect to go with a raw polygon / triangle based world, now we need to go to a pixel level, or atom as they called it.

In laymens terms, it only makes available the very details on the screen needed to display, that 1/100th of a second.
It doesn't try to load anything you can't currently see, even if it could be nearby. All that is currently wasted, but neccessary to provide smooth game play.
So what this technique does is massively improves the per frame processing power needed to render the image to the screen, making it unneccessary to prepare for the next frame, until it's prompted to change. Regardless of what you do or what action you take it will be ready for it.

This ends up in a huge reduction in processing needed to do per second. Which shows huge potential to reducing a huge bottle neck for game engines.
It does have some limitations to get around, since it has massively changed to ratio of background and foreground processing aswell as prerendering of graphics and world data.

This becomes an issue as they also need to change how physics and AI is applied to how graphics works and reacts.
However this is just something to get around and again this is possible, but it will slow it down.
So I doubt you'll see the show case like results, in a game when this comes to market.
However you can certainly expect any game to run alot smoother and in higher detail than anything else done the traditional way.

It is something the hardware industry is going to dislike to see this come to market.
It will disrupt their supply and demand model for quiet some time.
Gamers won't need to upgrade anywhere near as often if this lives up to it's potential.

This won't be coming to market anytime soon. It will take years to merge this work with all the components of a fully fledged game engine.

I think he even gives a nod to Bethesda by saying the next TES game should use this tech to create the most immersive RPG ever made. (I think they already did that with Skyrim,

I've heard the stories of the inventors who suddenly get a knock on the door one day and threatened to bury their research or end up dead. Or how someone bought them out, and the "secret" remained buried to allow for more sales.

But I see it going a different way here. Perhaps one of the GPU companies will buy the exclusive rights if the number they offer is high enough to convince the inventor they're serious about acquiring it. Then that GPU manufacturer creates a way to embed the technology inside their hardware as software-generated "HD mode" available on a pay-to-license scenario whereby you get different versions of the code embedded for whatever price point of GPU you are buying. If you are buying a cheap card, you get a scaled down version that can only gaurantee 60FPS in 1024 x 768 resolution. But if you buy the MAX card, the code is optimized to run the same game in HD resolutions of up to 8096 x ? ... taking it to a new extreme, and providing HD TV makers a new challenge and outlet for the rich as specialty items ....

Then they make the code have an expiration date, say 3 years, and then it will shut down inside the card. That will force you to have to upgrade your card every three years. So then nothing will change. You'll still be forced to upgrade as we are now, they'll still make billions.... we'll just unlimited rendering power, which will open the door to more immersion with such things as VR rooms capable of using one computer to render all 6 walls of your gaming cube (you stand inside it) ... and the floor is made of tiny rolling balls that you walk on, keeping you centered, but allowing you to walk (without moving) ... and use wireless guns and wireless headsets to see in 3D ... and then you are going to be able to experience a truly 3D immersive experience like no one has ever seen before. We're talking 10 years until that's a reality, full realized. Most of this stuff already exists. It will take time to merge all of the components and the tech and the new per-pixel unlimited detail engine ... and get it all working together.... but one day soon, the world of Avatar (and stepping into your own avatar inside a fully-fleshed VR world like in the movie) will be a reality. It the direction things are going. Its my prediction.

In the current system, I agree with you. If you had 1 MILLION particles onscreen, they would all be fully loaded, and require processing by the system. But now, in the proposed new system, there is never any particles loaded. You don't have to track them all. You only track the ones that the engine can see (and thus display as a pixel on the screen). So if your screen resolution was 1024 x 768, then the total number of pixels you could even see on your screen would be 786,432, not even a million. But under the current systems, you'd still have to track all 1 Million particles, and as you add more, your system begins to slow down down down... but the new system says that only the pixels required are turned on. The particles don't even exist unless they can be seen. So let's say you have that resolution above, and you are looking at 1 million particles on screen, but those particles are in the center of the screen and its zoomed out so that the particles are only filling 20% of the screen. The total number of particles you could even see with this resolution would be 157,286 only a small portion of the total 1 million particles being generated. If you turned up your resolution to HD (1920 x 1080) then you'd be able to see 2,0736,600 pixels on screen, of which the same 20% (due to being zoomed back from the mass of swirling particles) would still be only 414,720 rendered pixels. The rest, in this new system, are turned off. They are not being tracked by the GPU or memory. Thus we can see that the only limit to your visual CPU performance is your screen resolution.

In all current games, screen resolution does not hardly matter at all, since the graphics saved to the disc are usually of high enough fidelity that if you played in 1920 x 1080, you'd see no difference by going down to lower, or you'd see no difference by going from a lower to a higher, unless you install mod texture packs like those in play now for Skyrim. But with the new proposed system, the resolution actually matters, since the total cap to this engine's way of working is whatever number of pixels it must search every second. If the resolution is higher, you are going to get more and more fidelity and actually notice the difference considerably between each resolution.

In order to even approximate the same torture to this new system that the current GPU's are dealing with, if you rendered the million particles in 1920 x 1080 and then zoomed the particles so that they filled more than half of your screen, then you'd have to track every particle, but then again, all of the other pixels behind each particle would be turned off, and not have to be loaded or rendered or even thought about. There virtually is no limit to what can be done with such a system.

Define most. Octree tech has existed for years, theres plenty of tech demos that use it that exist, it was simply ahead of what computers could handle until recently.

Until I see an actual game demo with animations, collisions, physics, etc...I'm skeptical.

I really want to see this become a reality but I can't see it for another decade at least. It would cost too much to replace current procedures, train new employees who can use this tech, and get it to actually work in the long run.

People call it a scam only because Notch, the creator of Minecraft said it was, though he had no proof of it. Just blind followers.

Believe it or not, Notch actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to voxel graphics. (And this is coming from someone who hates Notch)

He coded his game in JAVA ...

Yes, I hate Java too, but that's mostly because it requires the user to have JRE installed.

On the contrary to popular belief, Java is not worse performance wise than other programming languages except Assembly and maybe C (if the engine is coded by a really experience graphics programmer)

Java imho shouldn't be used in any commercial games because like I said before it requires JRE, which is just as bad as a game that requires you to install a 3rd party DRM application.

Don't forget the issues Java has historically had with large amounts of memory.

And Minecraft is a large open-world game that uses large amounts of RAM.

The operational performance isn't bad anymore, but AFAIK it still has problems dealing with large address spaces.

I hope you are listening Bethesda. If you can get to this tech first, before those other RPG makers like the ones who made Witcher and Dragon Age can use it to finally be able to get a leap ahead of you .... then you can keep your lead. Because now, whoever uses this tech first will have some major head-starts over the competition in the ways mentioned above, but not limited to:......

......Just imagine what you could do, Bethesda. I hope you'll take a good long look and think about what will happen if your competitors decide to use this but you don't .... You may lose your golden perch above the rest of the RPG gaming industry ... as your loyal fans, we can't allow that to ever happen. But, in the spirit of fairness to the industry .... may the best company win!