[ezra]

No, put "Better Cities .esp" back in immediately! Without it, none of our BSAs will be loaded in-game and you'll have lots of missing meshes (once you get the game itself to run). This ESP can go after the Bash Patch safely.

I do agree with anithinks though, your problems are totally unrelated to BC now that you've removed "BBC-ICMarket.esp" which was most likely causing the rock juddering you mentioned, so this is the wrong place to seek further help

I will say this: disable the Bash Patch, confirm if game saves load. If they do, you've set your Bash Patch up badly. Take your time to understand how the Bash Patch works, and ensure that you don't enable any parts which you don't want or cannot use. For example, some sections (such as "Replace Form IDs") require that other specific mods be in-use, but it neglects to inform you of this AND what those mods are called. So the safest way to build your Bash Patch for the first time, is to only enable a few parts at a time, checking that the game plays between each rebuild, until you've got all the Bash Patch sections you want and can use active, and all those you cannot use disabled.

Actually - thanks to all the help - OB and BB are working great.
Am slowly rebuilding the Batch Patch - doing as you stated (started that last night LOL)
Again - thank you ALL for your help!

Although - removing Beautiful People did not work - a lot of the NPC's still have black eyes - but oh well, one of life's little tragedies I'm sure

[Sasha Brown]

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513

We opened Chorrol for this release and with it all the patches related to this city were updated to offer an openable version too.

• Werewolf legends
  
• Oblivion Collectible Cards
  
• Verona House Bloodline
  
• Knightly Armory
  
• UL Chorrol Hinterland
  
• CUO Chorrol
  
• Chorrol FPS Boost
  
• Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop

[Rachel Cafferty]

Are the open variants optional?

I had a hell of a time with open better cities and would prefer not having open cities.

[butterfly]

Are the open variants optional?

I had a hell of a time with open better cities and would prefer not having open cities.

Openable means that it can be opened not that it is open. So yes it is all optional.

[Suzy Santana]

The cities are all closed by default, there's a console command for each city to toggle from closed to open and back again.

I HIGHLY advise that you be nowhere near the city you are toggling open or closed when you run the command, and that you NOT be in the Tamriel worldspace - so being in the Imperial City would be good, or an interior (not one from the city being toggled!). If you don't follow this advice, then the pathgrids may not correctly toggle on/off. Also, if you've recently visited the city, I recommend waiting for roughly 24 in-game hours before returning after toggling, to allow time for the NPCs to figure out which worldspace they're meant to be in.

If you follow this advice, there should be no issues with switching between open and closed.

Each city also has hidden doors linking back to the city worldspace, in case the player needs to visit the city worldspace for content from a mod not made compatible with open cities. I still need to take the time to list where each of these doors are.

[Elizabeth Falvey]

A pair of suggestions:

- A faction icon for the Gold Horse Courier faction. Weren't that supposed to be dealt with already?

- The Leyawiin flood removal plugin could be improved in two ways. First, it seems Bash only imports water height data for cells which have a water height defined, so if Bash were to import water height from this plugin, it will have to be set to 0 in the exterior cells it edits. Else, when importing cells with Bash, the changes get overwritten by the main cities plugins and remains at water height 80. Second, how about the plugin removing the wooden planks leading to the city exists? Since the flood is removed they are not really needed, and they tend to make it difficult for NPCs to move around.

I'm kind of thrilled that you are adding open versions of the cities, slowly but steadily. I'm not using them yet, for compatibility reasons, but maybe when I tire of doing quests, I'll go into open mode just to enjoy it. Thanks.

[Madeleine Rose Walsh]

A pair of suggestions:

- A faction icon for the Gold Horse Courier faction. Weren't that supposed to be dealt with already?

- The Leyawiin flood removal plugin could be improved in two ways. First, it seems Bash only imports water height data for cells which have a water height defined, so if Bash were to import water height from this plugin, it will have to be set to 0 in the exterior cells it edits. Else, when importing cells with Bash, the changes get overwritten by the main cities plugins and remains at water height 80. Second, how about the plugin removing the wooden planks leading to the city exists? Since the flood is removed they are not really needed, and they tend to make it difficult for NPCs to move around.

I'm kind of thrilled that you are adding open versions of the cities, slowly but steadily. I'm not using them yet, for compatibility reasons, but maybe when I tire of doing quests, I'll go into open mode just to enjoy it. Thanks.

Faction icon: I thought it was. Maybe the icon ended in the wrong folder.

Flood removal removing the wood walkways: it did! How'd that stop working? It's been about 2.5 years since that ESP was last touched, I don't recall how it works anymore, but I'll look at it again. Maybe it worked by a parent toggle and the parent got edited somehow.

[BEl J]

I've seen This a (http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/Brozly/ScreenShot0-3.jpg http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/Brozly/ScreenShot1-2.jpg)couple times, I don't think it's Isolated to Chedynhall, but that's the most common...
I was running v480 at the time,(Upgradeing now) their not allways like that and back to normal on a Reload. (Thought I'd heard Something about it before, but don't recall What or Where) :shrug:

[Johnny]

I've seen This a (http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/Brozly/ScreenShot0-3.jpg http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/Brozly/ScreenShot1-2.jpg)couple times, I don't think it's Isolated to Chedynhall, but that's the most common...
I was running v480 at the time,(Upgradeing now) their not allways like that and back to normal on a Reload. (Thought I'd heard Something about it before, but don't recall What or Where) :shrug:

Please see our http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=220413.

[Cheville Thompson]

Ohh, I Did see that, for Some reason I was thinking it only pertained to the city Gates... :facepalm:

[Betsy Humpledink]

Ohh, I Did see that, for Some reason I was thinking it only pertained to the city Gates... :facepalm:

No, the city gates it does not pertain to at all. It only applies to the doors where BC has moved the vanilla building, requiring that the door be replaced as moving doors doesn't work very well. I believe that only Cheydinhal, Bruma and Skingrad might be affected, and then only the buildings which are moved, AND only for some people where their gamesave hasn't kept up with the changes.

[FLYBOYLEAK]

I'd wager it's the exact same problem that plagues OCC/OCR. Moving a persistent reference of any kind and marking the original disabled is something the engine simply forgets about if you reload the game without first dropping to the desktop. It doesn't matter where the object is or how far from it you are either, as I've seen it happen even when reloading in an entirely different worldspace.

[Marie]

Yes, it's the same problem. I believe that for BC Bruma I swapped out the vanilla door's base objects to try to resolve this, but now I cannot remember whether that is still used, nor whether it helps. I've never experienced the issue myself, merely seen it reported countless times.

[Lovingly]

Sorry about this question. It's come up before but I don't remember the solution.

I have a large floating LOD object above BC Skingrad, It's shaped like an inverted V and appears to be a piece of architecture. It's visible from a great distance, but disappears up close, e.g. if I disable collision and try to walk to it. It's persistent after reloads.

I have BBC full (latest version, or at least the latest version of two weeks ago), UL Skingrad Outskirts, West Roads, and WR/Skingrad Outskirts Patch.I'm using TES4LODGen but not RAEVWD or equivalent. I'm not on my gaming PC so can't post full load order.

Any advice please?

[Princess Johnson]

I had the same issue long ago, and was told to download and install http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20053, then rerun TES4LODGen.
Apparently there is no good LOD data for the Skingrad castle in vanilla, and what you see is the LOD of the new parts added to it by BBC, with no actual castle to rest upon.
If you install only the 00 core part of RAEVWD, you get only the vanilla LOD data, but fixed and optimized to the extreme. So basically everyone should use at least that.

[KU Fint]

I had the same issue long ago, and was told to download and install http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20053, then rerun TES4LODGen.
Apparently there is no good LOD data for the Skingrad castle in vanilla, and what you see is the LOD of the new parts added to it by BBC, with no actual castle to rest upon.
If you install only the 00 core part of RAEVWD, you get only the vanilla LOD data, but fixed and optimized to the extreme. So basically everyone should use at least that.

Thanks migck. This makes sense. My previous installs have used RAEVWD along with BBC, so that's why I've not noticed the problem before. This time round I'm sacrificing distant architecture for FPS, hence the problem.

I will do as you suggest.

[kasia]

Thanks migck. This makes sense. My previous installs have used RAEVWD along with BBC, so that's why I've not noticed the problem before. This time round I'm sacrificing distant architecture for FPS, hence the problem.

I will do as you suggest.

If you're sacrificing distant architecture for FPS, then you shouldn't use TES4LODGen at all (unless you use it to wipe the worldspace clean, which is an option the program offers). Simply disable distant buildings using the in-game menu.

[Mistress trades Melissa]

Yes, it's the same problem. I believe that for BC Bruma I swapped out the vanilla door's base objects to try to resolve this, but now I cannot remember whether that is still used, nor whether it helps. I've never experienced the issue myself, merely seen it reported countless times.

I've tried going that route before, it doesn't work any better than the forced disable + Z movement to get rid of the doors. The only thing I know would work without question is deleting the doors without performing an undelete during cleaning, but that raises all sorts of other issues. Short of using OBSE to call a command to change the reference's base object record, there's not much that can be done about it. The engine bug will insist on restoring the unaltered vanilla record to it's original location.

[naome duncan]

I prefer never to to relocate a disabled persistent object, even after removing persistency, just in case someone's game ignores the non-persistent status and leaves the object at Z -30000 after mod removal. So I typically leave persistent objects disabled, non-persistent but at precisely the same coordinates it was originally placed. In fact the reason I originally swapped out the Bruma door base objects was so that one door could remain in place, and remain persistent, as a vanilla quest targeted it. However it turned out (not discovered until about 2 years later) that this somehow upset the quest targeting, and so didn't actually work (although it had worked perfectly in testing)! Now that BC Bruma includes OBC Bruma, the quest record needed editing for other reasons, so I was able to simply edit the target and redirect to our own door record.

Ultimately, as it's a game engine problem, we can't do anything about it, so simply advise people to make a save in a new slot, quit to desktop, then reload that save.

[Mariaa EM.]

Searched for Mannimarco in the last 2 BC threads and couldn't find anything, so sorry if I just searched poorly and missed it.

I've been eyeing the mod "Mannimarco Resurrection - Light and Dark" which seems to be a wellmade mod. However, from looking at the comments on TESNexus it's not compatible with BC Imperial City, Arcane University in particular, a conflict that causes the game to crash inside the Arcane University. Now I would try this myself but as the character I planned to try this mod out with doesn't have access to AU, I decided to ask in this thread if anyone knows if they're compatible or not (I don't really trust random comments on tesnexus, although there were a few of them about this issue). Anyone that has played this mod knows if BC Imperial City + Mannimarco Resurrection will work?

[Gaelle Courant]

Searched for Mannimarco in the last 2 BC threads and couldn't find anything, so sorry if I just searched poorly and missed it.

I've been eyeing the mod "Mannimarco Resurrection - Light and Dark" which seems to be a wellmade mod. However, from looking at the comments on TESNexus it's not compatible with BC Imperial City, Arcane University in particular, a conflict that causes the game to crash inside the Arcane University. Now I would try this myself but as the character I planned to try this mod out with doesn't have access to AU, I decided to ask in this thread if anyone knows if they're compatible or not (I don't really trust random comments on tesnexus, although there were a few of them about this issue). Anyone that has played this mod knows if BC Imperial City + Mannimarco Resurrection will work?

All I can say is I don't believe anyone has ever told us of any conflict between BC and "Mannimarco Resurrection - Light and Dark".


From the Nexus comments to Mannimarco Resurrection - Light and Dark, created by MrUniq:
03:29, 11 November 2009

Quick conflict report. This mod is not compatible with Better Cities, Arcane University ONLY. When both this mod and the changes to the Arcane U are active a CTD ALWAYS results shortly after entering the Arcane U main gate. (CTD within two minutes each time.)

Tried: disabling one or the other and it works fine. Loading this after BC, no success. Sadly they seem to both add a Battlemage quarters in the same place. Perhaps conflicting AI for the Battlemages?

Just an fyi. I am keeping this mod, as I always defer to content over beautification.

23:35, 5 June 2010

Mr Author of this Awesome mod,
If I may put in a request? If you could, it would be fantastic if you would also release a separate version of this that is compatible with Better Cities, or perhaps a patch for Better Cities. I've read that Better Cities adds a battlemage's quarters where you add yours, which causes a CTD every time one enters the Arcane University. I'm a big fan of eyecandy, so Better Cities is on my "must have" list. I was thinking perhaps disabling the battlemage quarter interior cell from Better Cities and replacing it with your own. At the same time, exclude your exterior for the battlemage's quarters and instead allow the one from Better Cities to remain as it is. Then link the Better Cities exterior with your Battlemage's interior. That way the exterior of the battlemage's quarters in better cities isn't touched and we have your interior =) If any of that made sense...I would attempt this myself, but I'm fairly new to modding, so I'm not quite ready to try something like that...
I'm sure you'd make a lot of Better Cities users quite happy
-Falcron

15:55, 20 June 2010

Is the new version Better Cities compatible? I know the old version caused CTD at the AC whenever you had BC active...I'd love to play this, but I can't bring myself to get rid of BC...

19:15, 7 July 2010

Will download this as soon as it is compatible with Better Cities. Also seconding Skilki's comment, is this also compatible with the Origin of the Mages Guild?

21:27, 6 October 2010

Any word on Better Cities update or patch for this mod? I've been following it - I'd love to try it, but I just can't give up BC

I've underlined the comments which are relevant. Apparently when using the mod with BC Arcane University the game will CTD shortly after entering the District. There has however been a new update since this was reported to MrUniq (over a year ago, why has no one thought to report this to us? BC users know we tend to make patches or at least to investigate conflicts). Since this new update to the Mannimarco mod, no one has said the CTD still happens, instead it has been asked whether the conflict still exists.

I've also put in bold some very interesting comments regards the conflict, about a battlemage quarter interior from BC conflicting with the battlemage quarter interior from Mannimarco Resurrection, and being the possible reason for the CTD. But! BC does NOT include a battlemage quarter interior; BC does not add ANY new interiors to the Arcane University District, so the accuracy of these reports are certainly questionable, clearly those having a conflict between battlemage quarter interiors are finding a problem with a different mod and don't realise.

[BRAD MONTGOMERY]

All I can say is I don't believe anyone has ever told us of any conflict between BC and "Mannimarco Resurrection - Light and Dark".

Thanks for looking into it! And indeed, that it might be due to people having other mods that cause the conflict is the reason I brought it up here since I knew you'd know better Didnt personally find out about the mod until yesterday to report about it. Btw, the author did reply once about the "BC" issue 2 days after the last update back in June, quoted below.

Not yet..I'd have to post a seperate esp. I'll look into it when I have time since people use BC frequently. It's probably because I have AI packages that reference the 'normal' locations and I'd have to swap them to BC versions.

[Pumpkin]

Ah thanks, I missed his response. However his reasoning is wrong, as all 'normal' locations referenced by any AI (vanilla or mod-added) remain untouched by BC. I'll download the Mannimarco mod when I can and take a look for myself.

[Guy Pearce]

I've had Both Mods installed for quite qwhile, Never had a crash in the AU...

[Steve Smith]

Firstly, many thanks for making this "can't play without it" mod and for continuing to develop BC - just love the mod.

Apologies if this question is not related to BC - just seemed like a good place to start. I was doing a quest for Vampire Hunting - Order Of The Virtuous Blood v1.9.5, which required me to go to J'Ghasta's house. Problem was, it wasn't marked on the local map. In its place, was Ivan Beauvais's house. Additionally, the entrance to the secret basemant was no longer present.

I looked at all changes in TES4Edit to see if I could spot the mod that was making the change - and could find nothing, but it did seem as if BC made changes to the house. I also could find no reference to any NPC called Ivan Beauvais.

I don't know if it is related, but I also noticed that Seridur's House in the IC Temple District has become Cylben Dolovas' house.

If this is not BC, any ideas as to how I can track down what is making the change will be very much appreciated - even if I could find out what is changing the name on the map.

Many thanks for any help or guidance.