Can you make a better game?

Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:44 am

Skyrim gets alot of hard criticism and in some cases just flat out hate from [mainly] its hardcoe community. I don't how long it's been like this though, I wasn't a forum user when I played Oblivion.

Anyway, there are alot of things to be considered when complaining about TES/BGS. First, let's take a look at the size of the game. Skyrim is massive, and offers a plethora of content to the player(as do all TES). I'm suprised it was even possible to fit it all on an Xbox 360. This is one of the right directions that The Elder Scrolls series is going in, and there are few other games who do this. For example, let's look at Call of Duty. Do you know how much time the average Call of Duty player spends online? 51 minutes, according to Activision as of sometime last year. Do you know which was the most played game of 2011? Skyrim, even though it sold not nearly as much as Modern Warfare 3 did. I don't think Skyrim has been 'dumbed down' for 'casual gamers'. Does it cater to a broader audience? Yes. Has it been simpler? Yes, but it has also been made alot smoother. Complexity isn't always a good thing. And the game is still rich with Elder Scrolls Lore, etc. High sales aren't a bad thing either. High sales mean that the next game will be more immersive and hopefully an overall even better experience since BGS now has a higher budget. 'Dumbed Down' is an extremely crass and blatant term to label the game(especially as a whole).

This brings me to my another point. Are you a game developer? I doubt many(if any at all) of the forum users are game developers. I further doubt that anyone other than maybe certain administrators influenced the making of this game. That means that you don't know how the decision-making process of this game went. You don't know why Bethesda decided to scrap this mechanic or that weapon, why they decided to simplify this and implement this to replace that, or the sacrafices and benefits from these choice. Making a game is hard, paticularly when it comes to Innovation. If you try to innovate, there is a good chance it might not work out, because you are taking a risk from a development standpoint, and people will complain about it. Fans don't always like change, especially some hardcoe ones. However, if you take a more conservative approach, people will complain that the series is becoming stale(Call of Duty being another great example). Also, when you innovate, you are also most likely experimenting, seeing what works and what doesn't. A perfect example of this in Skyrim: The Perk System.

One final small issue: Graphics. A common complaint is that graphics/appealing visuals are another attempt at svcking in more gamers. Maybe they do, but this is not true. A game development studio has an interesting group of people called 'Artists'. These 'Artists' are responsible for creating the visuals and artwork of Skyrim. If you're an artist, working on a game like Morrowind or Fallout 3 may not be the most accomplishing experience. They made a game as beautiful as Skyrim because they had the ability to, and they wanted to test their new technology to its fullest, not to svck in newcomers for the purpose of sales'.

I feel that Bethesda and Skyrim receive alot more hate, harsh criticism, or whatever you want to call it, than they deserve. In my opinion, Bethesda are one of the best developers out there, few can rival the time they put in, the detail they create, and the passion they have for their games. I think it's because we can forget the game developers are people too, not genies who exist solely to grant our every wish and make the perfect game. People don't realize that making a game is alot harder than it seems. No game ever is or will be perfect. Skyrim isn't perfect but I think it's an amazing game, I think it's the best in the Elder Scrolls series yet(disputable of course). It's one of the best games I've ever played and I look forward to future titles by Bethesda.
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Luna Lovegood
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:46 am

It's just here on the forums, don't worry. Skyrim is universally acclaimed, it's selling spectacularly well and is winning awards left right and centre. I wouldn't worry ;)
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rolanda h
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:44 am

Give me the same resources Bethesda has and I`d MAKE a better game- easily.
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Jessica Colville
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:23 am

In other words: Video games are just to make money and not how much the player enjoys them.
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DarkGypsy
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:09 am

I could certainly make a game that is better suited for myself. As for can I make a better game, depends on how many people like me there are out there?
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Christine Pane
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:38 am

Nobody can, nobody can. Bethesda has everything they need. Now let's hope they do want to make better games with more content, complexity and original features never seen before. Skyrim is not much a spectacular leap from Oblivion, let's say it's the short development time (yeah, it's not actually 5 years, they have to work on that [censored] Fallout and waste a lot of precious time) and the old gen hardware that limits them, but man, come TES VI and new consoles I hope they do put their minds together and hire a bigger better crew and make a revolutionnary game to be remembered across generations like a milestone in modern gaming.
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Chase McAbee
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:04 pm

If by "make" you mean to actually produce it, program it, do the art work, and everything else involved... nope.
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Ross Thomas
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:08 am

Conceptually, yes. In practice, no.
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Alex Vincent
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:12 pm

Could you do better is hardly a good argument for a critic. No but as a critic it's my job to tell you that it is not perfect.
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Quick draw II
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:36 pm

Nice fallacy.
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Nuno Castro
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:44 am

No, but I don't even wish I could. When you design, program and test games as a job it's not as fun as a customer.
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jodie
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:24 am

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:29 am

Skyrim gets alot of hard criticism and in some cases just flat out hate from [mainly] its hardcoe community. I don't how long it's been like this though, I wasn't a forum user when I played Oblivion.

Anyway, there are alot of things to be considered when complaining about TES/BGS. First, let's take a look at the size of the game. Skyrim is massive, and offers a plethora of content to the player(as do all TES). I'm suprised it was even possible to fit it all on an Xbox 360. This is one of the right directions that The Elder Scrolls series is going in, and there are few other games who do this. For example, let's look at Call of Duty. Do you know how much time the average Call of Duty player spends online? 51 minutes, according to Activision as of sometime last year. Do you know which was the most played game of 2011? Skyrim, even though it sold not nearly as much as Modern Warfare 3 did. I don't think Skyrim has been 'dumbed down' for 'casual gamers'. Does it cater to a broader audience? Yes. Has it been simpler? Yes, but it has also been made alot smoother. Complexity isn't always a good thing. And the game is still rich with Elder Scrolls Lore, etc. High sales aren't a bad thing either. High sales mean that the next game will be more immersive and hopefully an overall even better experience since BGS now has a higher budget. 'Dumbed Down' is an extremely crass and blatant term to label the game(especially as a whole).

This brings me to my another point. Are you a game developer? I doubt many(if any at all) of the forum users are game developers. I further doubt that anyone other than maybe certain administrators influenced the making of this game. That means that you don't know how the decision-making process of this game went. You don't know why Bethesda decided to scrap this mechanic or that weapon, why they decided to simplify this and implement this to replace that, or the sacrafices and benefits from these choice. Making a game is hard, paticularly when it comes to Innovation. If you try to innovate, there is a good chance it might not work out, because you are taking a risk from a development standpoint, and people will complain about it. Fans don't always like change, especially some hardcoe ones. However, if you take a more conservative approach, people will complain that the series is becoming stale(Call of Duty being another great example). Also, when you innovate, you are also most likely experimenting, seeing what works and what doesn't. A perfect example of this in Skyrim: The Perk System.

One final small issue: Graphics. A common complaint is that graphics/appealing visuals are another attempt at svcking in more gamers. Maybe they do, but this is not true. A game development studio has an interesting group of people called 'Artists'. These 'Artists' are responsible for creating the visuals and artwork of Skyrim. If you're an artist, working on a game like Morrowind or Fallout 3 may not be the most accomplishing experience. They made a game as beautiful as Skyrim because they had the ability to, and they wanted to test their new technology to its fullest, not to svck in newcomers for the purpose of sales'.

I feel that Bethesda and Skyrim receive alot more hate, harsh criticism, or whatever you want to call it, than they deserve. In my opinion, Bethesda are one of the best developers out there, few can rival the time they put in, the detail they create, and the passion they have for their games. I think it's because we can forget the game developers are people too, not genies who exist solely to grant our every wish and make the perfect game. People don't realize that making a game is alot harder than it seems. No game ever is or will be perfect. Skyrim isn't perfect but I think it's an amazing game, I think it's the best in the Elder Scrolls series yet(disputable of course). It's one of the best games I've ever played and I look forward to future titles by Bethesda.

Skyrim is Massive ? Samesize as Oblivion, so nothing new...
Offer a plethora of content ? What is there in that wasn t there before apart from a uncompleted, untought and sometimes planly useless crafting system ?

I love those new players defenses of a game that offer nothing that wasn t there before than a new cenário, and in many aspects offer less than its predecessors.
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Amiee Kent
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:27 pm

Could you do better is hardly a good argument for a critic. No but as a critic it's my job to tell you that it is not perfect.

As a critic you're job is to make good criticisms that the developers could use to improve their games in the future. Not things like 'wtf did they take out athletics acrobatics spears and mysticism dis game svcks."
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Nikki Morse
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:29 am

A food critic is not required to be a chef in order to be qualified to critique food. A film critc is not required to actually know how to produce/direct a film of his/her own in order to make valid criticisms of a film. Similarly, just because I don't know how to "make" a game, that does not disclude me from being able to level valid criticisms of one.

That old "Oh, yeah? Well can YOU do better?" is a facile argument.
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J.P loves
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:39 am

Capelli - ConnivingEagle: 1-0
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Mandi Norton
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:31 am

As a critic you're job is to make good criticisms that the developers could use to improve their games in the future. Not things like 'wtf did they take out athletics acrobatics spears and mysticism dis game svcks."

I don't believe I said that ever.
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*Chloe*
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:24 pm

Give me the same resources Bethesda has and I`d MAKE a better game- easily.

who? you? by yourself? haha!!!! After the 15 years you spend developing it hope its worth claiming you can.
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Nauty
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:46 am

A food critic is not required to be a chef in order to be qualified to critique food. A film critc is not required to actually know how to produce/direct a film of his/her own in order to make valid criticisms of a film. Similarly, just because I don't know how to "make" a game, that does not disclude me from being able to level valid criticisms of one.

That old "Oh, yeah? Well can YOU do better?" is a facile argument.
+1
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Jonathan Egan
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:39 am

Skyrim rocks. Bethesda are brave, and skilled, for sticking to their guns and making what they have made given the current revolution in gaming.Hats off to all the devs there - not so much the suits. On the other hand, there may not be a 12.12.12 so perhaps they were feeling the pressure...
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MISS KEEP UR
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am

A food critic is not required to be a chef in order to be qualified to critique food. A film critc is not required to actually know how to produce/direct a film of his/her own in order to make valid criticisms of a film. Similarly, just because I don't know how to "make" a game, that does not disclude me from being able to level valid criticisms of one.

That old "Oh, yeah? Well can YOU do better?" is a facile argument.

But a chef probably would make a better food critic who can give better suggestions. I didn't really need people to answer the title question, I mainly want people to realize that making games is and pleasing everybody is hard.
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Charlotte Henderson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:34 am

I don't believe I said that ever.

You didn't. That was an example of a troll.
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Jonathan Windmon
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:52 am

Put me in Todd's position and I will make a better game. Skyrim wouldn't have even came out yet if I were in charge. We'd still be working on getting things into the game.
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GPMG
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Nobody can, nobody can. Bethesda has everything they need. Now let's hope they do want to make better games with more content, complexity and original features never seen before. Skyrim is not much a spectacular leap from Oblivion, let's say it's the short development time (yeah, it's not actually 5 years, they have to work on that [censored] Fallout and waste a lot of precious time) and the old gen hardware that limits them, but man, come TES VI and new consoles I hope they do put their minds together and hire a bigger better crew and make a revolutionnary game to be remembered across generations like a milestone in modern gaming.

Dovakin vs Courier vs Vault Boy vs Gordon Freeman vs Spartan vs Commander Sheperd. Who would win?
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Ebou Suso
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:22 am

But a chef probably would make a better food critic who can give better suggestions. I didn't really need people to answer the title question, I mainly want people to realize that making games is and pleasing everybody is hard.
It's not really about making a great game. It's about making a game that as many people as possible will buy with as low costs as possible.
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R.I.P
 
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