Can you make a better game?

Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:51 am

No, I can not. I'm not a game developer unfortunately. Somewhat aspiring writer, but I'm not going to say I'd write anything better. I don't finish anything (yet), so the point is moot.
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lucile davignon
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:07 pm

Why make a better game when I can play better games made by better developers? If Skyrim didn't have a CK I wouldn't have bought it especially at the full overpriced amount it was on release day and still is now. Want to know why? because I know the community of TES can blow BGS's work out of the water or at least improve on the mechanics that BGS went short on or are unfinished, without eh CK I would have waited as I did with Battlefield 3 and get it a very discounted price or until the overall price of the game came out.

Asking the question "can you make a better game" doesn't mean anything its not my job it is the job of developers to make games it also is a job of the developers to make GOOD games that will attract the same fanbase they had with their last title and enough to want more people to play it. Of course this is not the case because AAA developers such as Bethesda Game Stuidios has AAA publishers to back them up making advertisiments and selling their games with numbers even if they have complete lack of content and/or innovation want to see a prime example of such? Look at COD, would COD be as large as it was if Activision didn't have the largest PR in the industry? certianly not it wouldn't even be on the top 10 let alone 50 bought games if they did but sadly it is because PR alone sells.
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Josee Leach
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:25 am

who? you? by yourself? haha!!!! After the 15 years you spend developing it hope its worth claiming you can.

Because Todd Howard totally made the game by himself too, huh?

Just so that you know, "same resources" means same budget, same tools, same personel. With those 3, anyone can make a better game. They don't even need to be good at programming - just good enough at communicating their ideas to the staff, and working with them to make sure the end result is close to what they initially wanted (since you'll never be able to do exactly what you want) And yeah, I guess given 3 years there are many of us who would be able to make an equally good, and ome an even better game. After all, we know what Skyrim did right and what it did wrong, so we know where to focus so that we don't have ambitious plans that end up wasted due to poor implememntation. Because what Skyrim's problem is is simply that: it has an awesome base plan, but is totally messed up when it comes to details. The world is huge and well deigned, the general idea of the quest system is good, and it has achieved a very good combination of action and rpg. But, at the same time, there are tons of details here and there that can potentially ruin the whole thing as they pile up, such as some badly implemented and badly balanced skills, badly implemented enemy leveling, short questlines, and some really bad choices when it comes to player-environment interaction. Plus the bug, but those are not exactly the result of bad development, and if I had the same people as Todd had I don't really expect to make a game that is less buggy, so I'll pass that (plus most bugs in Skyrim are not that annoying anyway)

Now, will those better games be better from a financial point of view? Well, to give an anology: count the profits from Justin Bieber's songs. Then pick something that could be classified as quality music and compaire the numbers...
Video games are often the same...
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Siobhan Wallis-McRobert
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:23 am

I love the high steem most people seem to show on the internet (I won't dabble debating how that may or may not be related to IRL behaviours), It's the classical tall poppy syndrome brought to a whole new anonymity-powered level.

I really hope y'all get a job in the gaming industry and demonstrate how awesome you are.
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Kathryn Medows
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:44 pm

I think some of the top modders, working together with Bethesda's resources could maybe make a better game. As for me? Not with an army of genetically engineered super monkeys at my side.
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A Dardzz
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:53 am

I do plan on making a game at some point in time. I put well over a thousand hours into a TC for Oblivion. Most of the people here who say they can make a better game really don't understand how difficult it is. Most of them would give up in a month or two. (Or, not start at all.) Finding faults in someone else's work is trivial. Any idiot can do it. Coming up with an entire game that doesn't self-destruct under its own weight is much much harder. Most of the solutions I've seen proposed on these forums to "fix" the game are just as bad if not worse than the original design. (Some of them are better, though.) I like the enthusiasm, but honestly, there's a lot more to game design than finding a better way to implement one little feature in a huge piece of software.

The whole "modders could make a better game" is also completely fallacious. Yes: a good team of modders with the right resources could make a game like Skyrim. Those people are called a development team, and BGS happens to be one of them. Amateur modders have the luxury of fixating on trivial elements and elaborating them into great features. I know that, because I'm a modder. It's amazing what you can do when you don't have to worry about putting food on anyone's table. Incidentally, you should be aware of the double-standard most people employ to criticize a game studio for being concerned about money: there isn't a person on this forum who wouldn't be worried about making back the enormous financial debt they're incurring while working on the game. Are companies sometimes more fixated on returns than they should be? Probably, but calling the devs lazy and greedy is patently naive if not consciously vicious. I don't happen to suffer from paranoid delusions, so I'm comfortable with believing that Todd Howard and the rest of the devs are human like myself and not cardboard villains in a adolescent fantasy of rebellion.

As to the whole "critics don't have to be developers" argument goes, I agree. You don't have to know a thing about game design to be a good game critic. Of course, the corollary of that is: if you're criticizing the game but don't understand game development, what makes you think you could make a better game? The blade cuts both ways.
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Breanna Van Dijk
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:14 am

I think some of the top modders, working together with Bethesda's resources could maybe make a better game. As for me? Not with an army of genetically engineered super monkeys at my side.

But think of all the fun you could have with an army of genetically engineered super monkeys. [censored] making games, fly my pretties, flyyyyy!
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Peter P Canning
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:58 am

Does not compute. To say that if you could possibly do something, you already would've done it makes no sense. The only way it makes sense is if everything that is going to happen has already happened.

100% True, but it was all in jest, not to be taken seriously...Too late though.

On second thought it makes perfect sense if by speculating that you could do it, was based on having the experience in it beforehand.
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:12 am

Skyrim is an awsome game overall. Im amused at the few on the forums that cry, if you dont like it, dont play it and move on smartly!
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Sammykins
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:42 pm

Give me the same resources Bethesda has and I`d MAKE a better game- easily.

LOL! Yeah, OK.
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Nikki Hype
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:15 am

But think of all the fun you could have with an army of genetically engineered super monkeys. [censored] making games, fly my pretties, flyyyyy!
I'd set them to fight with brooms till they realized they couldn't cut with them, and then shoot them, but then they'd woke up because I hadn't used real bullets. To make It more interesting, I would have brought them to Malta, the Antartica or Amsterdam (Not sure which, is the moon a viable option?) and erased their memories, so they'd have to retrace their stories till they found I killed their mother. To make It more interesting, I'd spray them with an anti-long-term-memory something, so they would have to take annotations on photos like in that movie. God I love that movie (was it "Memento"?).
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Angus Poole
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:14 pm

who? you? by yourself? haha!!!! After the 15 years you spend developing it hope its worth claiming you can.

Well it's not like Bethesda is only one person..... hmmm or is it?

Maybe the question should have been:

If you were the decision maker in charge of the final product of this game, could you do better?
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Portions
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:03 am

I'd love to see even a handful of you who claim you could make a better game shut up, buck up, and actually build a better game to back up your big talk.

Hell, build ANY kind of game.
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Elizabeth Davis
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:58 am

I'd set them to fight with brooms till they realized they couldn't cut with them, and then shoot them, but then they'd woke up because I hadn't used real bullets. To make It more interesting, I would have brought them to Malta, the Antartica or Amsterdam (Not sure which, is the moon a viable option?) and erased their memories, so they'd have to retrace their stories till they found I killed their mother. To make It more interesting, I'd spray them with an anti-long-term-memory something, so they would have to take annotations on photos like in that movie. God I love that movie (was it "Memento"?).

Memento is bloody awesome - but in that case you'd also have to tattoo them with key moments of their their life and send Joe Pantoliano as their guide to retrace their steps for an indefinite period of time.

Overall, a good use of genetically engineered super monkeys (and Joe Pantoliano) I think. Video game development is wasted on them really.
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Michael Russ
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:06 pm

For some making serious claims they could do better, I’d say the ability to formulate a complete grammatically correctly sentence in the English language would probably be a good place to start.

Forgive me a cruel chuckle. =P
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Gaelle Courant
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 am

To the OP: I don't need to be a developer to post critique. If my steak is spoiled and I complain about that then I don't need to be a butcher to do that. That doesn't mean I don't like the game, though. Ghehe. But it is not perfect and if I remain silent about that, things will never change.
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Kelly John
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:07 am

As an actual game production student heading into the game industry (which I've worked in before) I'll say this...

I won't ever say I can, or will, outdo someone else's IP if I am given a chance to work on it, re~boot it, or what have you.

What I will say is that I will try to do my best at what I do, and that's make games. I will look at what has been made before me and what has been made around me and try to find what I believe (and what hopefully my fan base will believe) works well and what doesn't work well.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:23 am

Of course I can't make a better game, I don't have the knowledge, the will, or the patience to create a game. That doesn't mean I can't criticize what I find wrong with Skyrim.
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remi lasisi
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:28 am

Skyrim gets alot of hard criticism and in some cases just flat out hate from [mainly] its hardcoe community. I don't how long it's been like this though, I wasn't a forum user when I played Oblivion.

Anyway, there are alot of things to be considered when complaining about TES/BGS. First, let's take a look at the size of the game. Skyrim is massive, and offers a plethora of content to the player(as do all TES). I'm suprised it was even possible to fit it all on an Xbox 360. This is one of the right directions that The Elder Scrolls series is going in, and there are few other games who do this. For example, let's look at Call of Duty. Do you know how much time the average Call of Duty player spends online? 51 minutes, according to Activision as of sometime last year. Do you know which was the most played game of 2011? Skyrim, even though it sold not nearly as much as Modern Warfare 3 did. I don't think Skyrim has been 'dumbed down' for 'casual gamers'. Does it cater to a broader audience? Yes. Has it been simpler? Yes, but it has also been made alot smoother. Complexity isn't always a good thing. And the game is still rich with Elder Scrolls Lore, etc. High sales aren't a bad thing either. High sales mean that the next game will be more immersive and hopefully an overall even better experience since BGS now has a higher budget. 'Dumbed Down' is an extremely crass and blatant term to label the game(especially as a whole).

This brings me to my another point. Are you a game developer? I doubt many(if any at all) of the forum users are game developers. I further doubt that anyone other than maybe certain administrators influenced the making of this game. That means that you don't know how the decision-making process of this game went. You don't know why Bethesda decided to scrap this mechanic or that weapon, why they decided to simplify this and implement this to replace that, or the sacrafices and benefits from these choice. Making a game is hard, paticularly when it comes to Innovation. If you try to innovate, there is a good chance it might not work out, because you are taking a risk from a development standpoint, and people will complain about it. Fans don't always like change, especially some hardcoe ones. However, if you take a more conservative approach, people will complain that the series is becoming stale(Call of Duty being another great example). Also, when you innovate, you are also most likely experimenting, seeing what works and what doesn't. A perfect example of this in Skyrim: The Perk System.

One final small issue: Graphics. A common complaint is that graphics/appealing visuals are another attempt at svcking in more gamers. Maybe they do, but this is not true. A game development studio has an interesting group of people called 'Artists'. These 'Artists' are responsible for creating the visuals and artwork of Skyrim. If you're an artist, working on a game like Morrowind or Fallout 3 may not be the most accomplishing experience. They made a game as beautiful as Skyrim because they had the ability to, and they wanted to test their new technology to its fullest, not to svck in newcomers for the purpose of sales'.

I feel that Bethesda and Skyrim receive alot more hate, harsh criticism, or whatever you want to call it, than they deserve. In my opinion, Bethesda are one of the best developers out there, few can rival the time they put in, the detail they create, and the passion they have for their games. I think it's because we can forget the game developers are people too, not genies who exist solely to grant our every wish and make the perfect game. People don't realize that making a game is alot harder than it seems. No game ever is or will be perfect. Skyrim isn't perfect but I think it's an amazing game, I think it's the best in the Elder Scrolls series yet(disputable of course). It's one of the best games I've ever played and I look forward to future titles by Bethesda.

Quite a lot of people could make a better game if they had the same resources Bethesda has. So many ideas get taken from mods made by ordinary gamers all the time. Bethesda make great game worlds but honestly, the combat gameplay is really poor and is terribly unbalanced.

One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that most people are giving feedback because they want the game to be better.
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lacy lake
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:35 am

Memento is bloody awesome - but in that case you'd also have to tattoo them with key moments of their their life and send Joe Pantoliano as their guide to retrace their steps for an indefinite period of time.

Overall, a good use of genetically engineered super monkeys (and Joe Pantoliano) I think. Video game development is wasted on them really.
Insight: Genetically enhanced Joe Pantoliano. M I N D B L O W N
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:53 am

As an actual game production student heading into the game industry (which I've worked in before) I'll say this...

I won't ever say I can, or will, outdo someone else's IP if I am given a chance to work on it, re~boot it, or what have you.

What I will say is that I will try to do my best at what I do, and that's make games. I will look at what has been made before me and what has been made around me and try to find what I believe (and what hopefully my fan base will believe) works well and what doesn't work well.

This is one of the most intelligent posts I've read in these forums. I'm all for constructive criticism (I have to be since I'm an illustrator), but what I can't abide is a complete lack of respect and utter disregard for the artists, programmers, and creative directors that pour their hearts into a project only to have it spat on and torn apart by people who have NO idea what it took to create it.
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Dustin Brown
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:38 am

I would make a game I like more, although most of you would hate it. (It would be New Vegas with Dragons.)
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JLG
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:17 am

Insight: Genetically enhanced Joe Pantoliano. M I N D B L O W N

*slams fist on desk and stands up* That's what this game has been missing all along! By Jove we've solved it - someone call Todd Howard!
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JD FROM HELL
 
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Post » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:40 pm

Easily. I've already started.

Spoiler
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Here, I thank everyone who helped me making Skyrim a better game.

Come back one year later, your mind will be blown away.
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Laura Shipley
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:19 am

I do plan on making a game at some point in time. I put well over a thousand hours into a TC for Oblivion. Most of the people here who say they can make a better game really don't understand how difficult it is. Most of them would give up in a month or two. (Or, not start at all.) Finding faults in someone else's work is trivial. Any idiot can do it. Coming up with an entire game that doesn't self-destruct under its own weight is much much harder. Most of the solutions I've seen proposed on these forums to "fix" the game are just as bad if not worse than the original design. (Some of them are better, though.) I like the enthusiasm, but honestly, there's a lot more to game design than finding a better way to implement one little feature in a huge piece of software.

The whole "modders could make a better game" is also completely fallacious. Yes: a good team of modders with the right resources could make a game like Skyrim. Those people are called a development team, and BGS happens to be one of them. Amateur modders have the luxury of fixating on trivial elements and elaborating them into great features. I know that, because I'm a modder. It's amazing what you can do when you don't have to worry about putting food on anyone's table. Incidentally, you should be aware of the double-standard most people employ to criticize a game studio for being concerned about money: there isn't a person on this forum who wouldn't be worried about making back the enormous financial debt they're incurring while working on the game. Are companies sometimes more fixated on returns than they should be? Probably, but calling the devs lazy and greedy is patently naive if not consciously vicious. I don't happen to suffer from paranoid delusions, so I'm comfortable with believing that Todd Howard and the rest of the devs are human like myself and not cardboard villains in a adolescent fantasy of rebellion.

As to the whole "critics don't have to be developers" argument goes, I agree. You don't have to know a thing about game design to be a good game critic. Of course, the corollary of that is: if you're criticizing the game but don't understand game development, what makes you think you could make a better game? The blade cuts both ways.

This ^
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Dan Scott
 
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