So I just watched an interview that was linked to on the ESO reddit where Matt Firor confirms there will be an item shop in the game. He states it won't include "bonus points" (assuming they were talking about XP boosts here) but it will have "fun items and services."

Personally, I'm fine with a subscription model, and a cash shop in a P2P game is fine if it's just services (name changes, for example). I know other subscription-based games have done the item shop deal (EVE as well as EQ2 pre-F2P both immediately spring to mind), but it really feels like it's starting to get into "double dipping" territory for me. This is, of course, assuming that by "fun items" he's referring to vanity items. I know it falls into the arguement of "don't like it, don't buy it," and I see that too. But if they already have your subscription money, why divert resources that could be going toward things attainable in-game into things that can't. Well, the obvious answer is for the added money.

I guess I'm just feeling kind of conflicted on this. I'm fine with further supporting an MMO with my money. But it feels like they were a little less than honest when they said that the subscription is to remove paywalls, which suggests that everything made for the game is attainable in the game. But perhaps I misinterpreted his statement. What are your thoughts?

Interview can be found here: http://esohub.de/news/154-eso-interview-abomodell-itemshop-entwicklung Item shops are mentioned about 30 seconds in.

Understandable. I have no problem with this, but since we are paying a sub then they should put all the items in the shop in the game to attained through long grind sessions of some sort. So those that want to simply front the money can and those of us that do not want to to spend additional funds do not feel left.

A reasonable take on the matter and I'd be fine with it too if that is the case. I guess it's just one of those "wait and see" kind of things.

It's a vanity shop. No way it's a cash shop.

Vanity items like silly hats that don't really do anything and little pets that follow you around and look cute don't bother me. Charging for name changes and the like is also fairly common, so an in game interface to do that makes a certain sort of sense. So long as they don't sell things that are actually useful in gameplay, a vanity shop alongside the subscription doesn't worry me.

umm what? Do you not use real money to buy what ever is in that "vanity shop"? If you use real money, then it is a cash shop.

I really don't like cash shops mainly due to the reason that they ruin the entire in game economy. I saw this kind of thing happening countless times in MMOs. People going broke shelling out in game money for a cash shop item that someone was selling, while that seller becomes a mogul and now has basically beaten the game because he can buy all the best in game gear. In fact, I was one of those guys. I made a fortune in SWTOR and bought all the best stuff on the auction market and I spent the rest of my money buying cash shop items (mostly vehicles) off of people. Then I was broke...so what did I do? You know it...I went and spent more money on cash shop items to sell to people and became rich again. It gives people an unfair advantage. I think this is where the term "pay to win" comes from; people without the cash to spend give away all their in game currency to you for a nice speeder that you can't get without spending money and you get to run away and buy whatever you want in game with their money. You don't have to grind or quest or anything like that...spend a few bucks and you're on top of everyone else. Cash shops are game ruiners imo.

And yes, a lot of these items are vanity items...but people will break bank for them, and through this, the economy in game is thrown way off. I've seen it happen loads of times.

Only if they let people sell those items in game. If you buy it and it's automatically tied to your account/character, then it doesn't affect ingame economy.

It doesn't matter if it's just a vanity item, it's double-dipping. If I'm paying to access the game, that should mean i have access to ALL of the game based on my wilingness to work for it. I should not be outdone by another player simply because he has a bigger wallet than I do.

And while they say it's not going to be "Pay 2 Win", just wait. Once they see just how many people are willing to spend to to get ahead, they'll start putting more stuff on the shop and it'll just ruin the game even further.

I mean they will not sell in game currency or real useful items in the vanity shop.

That's very true. I still don't like the idea of cash shops in a p2p game, but if they implemented a bind system then it probably wouldn't have a whole lot of impact on the game.

It would actually probably be smarter to do so on their end because then more people would probably be buying those items.

As long as it is just vanity...meh. If it gives them ANY advantage in combat, I'm out.

Well, aren't you little Mr Sunshine.

I disagree. That fact that it is P2P gives me hope they will not stoop to that level.

Its a slippery slope, but its not a problem until its a problem.

Race changes, name changes, gender changes, mounts, pets. These are things we see in the typical P2P shop. These are the types of things Matt Firor specifically mentions.

RIFT said they weren't going to be P2W either. Have you seen their cash shop? Zenimax will likely do the same at some point.

No, I have not. I guess we will wait and see.

Binding the items to the account that buys them is the best way to go with vanity (and in fact, all cash shop) items. Keeps them out of the ingame economy, and encourages people to buy them if they want them that badly.

You measure your success in the game by the number of silly hats and vanity pets you can collect? So what if the other guy has a brown guar mini-pet? Is it any better than the yellow one you found because he paid $5 for it? (That's an example, I don't know if there even is a guar mini pet.)

RIFT also went free to play so they could milk the shop for all its worth. If the game is worth the sub, ZOS will have many years of success before they need to consider putting useful items in the shop.

Rift went F2P. F2P has no other choice but to sell as much as possible in their cash shop, otherwise they literally have no profit margin at all.

You can really start to worry if and when TESO ends up going F2P, but not before that.

Greed is the defining factor. If not for greed, there'd be nothing in the shop beyond name changes and the like. Going beyond that, smacks of pure greed and when that ball starts rolling, it's all downhill, imo.

I have good reason to believe that ZOS has a fairly heavy portion of their staff that are diehard roleplayers and lore nerds, I don't think stuff like this will happen. Ever.

I agree, http://youtu.be/TvFsFtOa3yM

^^^^^^^ I have faith in this team, they have proven to me that they are far from ignorant and know what they are doing.

Greed, eh.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/news/gameId/15/showArticle/26517

Super greedy Blizzard and their putting charity fund raising pets into their cash shop multiple times over the last 8 years. Bunch of bastards if you ask me.

Charity. Good causes always. So the vanity stuff Zenimax will sell in their shop will be for charity? It won't go into the Zenimax coffers? I'd like to see that announcement please. Until then, the two really do not compare.