Class, Trinity and TES:O : Othor Games

» Mon May 14, 2012 1:00 pm

Never played those games, but see the bit I put in bold? That seems more a trait of Skyrim that TES.

Yes, it's more a trait of Skyrim. However as Skyrim is the newest installment, ease of switching may now become common place.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:03 pm

realy you should stop your final fantasy obsession right here. this system didnt work in the FF mmorpg and it wont work here either. just stop it.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:32 pm

I wanted to make my own thread about this but here we go. So i can see there beeing 2 Possible ways they can go with classes (we know there will be classes, we just know) with alot of subcategories so i will try to explain what i mean here.

Some nice ideas there. I'll get back to this one when i've got a bit more time.

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:15 pm

realy you should stop your final fantasy obsession right here. this system didnt work in the FF mmorpg and it wont work here either. just stop it.

Final Fantasy XI's system worked really well... not sure where you get your information.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:31 am

That is a blatant lie. It did not work and that is one of the Factors of this game beeing dead now, pretty much followed by its sequal.

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:24 am

Final Fantasy XI's system worked really well... not sure where you get your information.

What you're saying is opinion, not fact.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:04 pm

That is a blatant lie. It did not work and that is one of the Factors of this game beeing dead now, pretty much followed by its sequal.

Actually, it did work rather well, and the game is still around, it's just really old and has the worst control scheme/UI ever to grace an MMO. The hybridized class switching system combined with the renkei (group combo attacks) were the best parts of an otherwise mediocre game.

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:48 pm

As we know, the Elder Scrolls series are classless games where you pretty much decide what role you're going to play as you go along. You don't limit yourself to it from the start.

That's not a concept new to mmo's, there are others that have done it, but there is many a player who will tell you that it's impossible to have decent mmo content without a class system that enourages cooperative and tactical gameplay, due to interdependency. They see the alternative as gameplay being reduced to characters playing the same role even in epic group content - where everyone is DPS with enough healing/buffing just to cover themselves.

So what do we think? Should TES:O have a strict class system, like most 'traditional' mmo's? Or should it stick to its own singleplayer system, and be classless, just as some experimental indy mmo's have been?

I think it would be better to follow a game like Vanguard where each class is defined and plays a certain role,trinity system would probably suit this game.You could also have different branches of each class,this is where specialisation comes into play.

I would follow a game like Vanguard which has 15 classes and a points attribute system similar to oblivion or Morrowind,people who are not used to MMO would find that system more appealing than your typical WOW system or SWTOR.

Vanguards attribute system .. http://vanguardvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Guides.Detail&id=2

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:34 am

That is a blatant lie. It did not work and that is one of the Factors of this game beeing dead now, pretty much followed by its sequal.

Get the feeling you never actually played it. And that you know not of what you are talking about.

Why you're getting off topic is beyond me however.

The "switch class" system can easily be molded into something akin to Skyrim.

What you're saying is opinion, not fact.

Oh Lord... the "that's your opinion" angle.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:51 pm

Get the feeling you never actually played it. And that you know not of what you are talking about.

Why you're getting off topic is beyond me however.

The "switch class" system can easily be molded into something akin to Skyrim.

You're missing the point. Skyrim didn't have a switch class system. It just didn't have classes.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:56 am

You're missing the point. Skyrim didn't have a switch class system. It just didn't have classes.

No, he gets that. He's saying something like FFXI's class switching system would go a long way towards alleviating the concerns about a tight class system removing player freedom. I'm inclined to agree it was a nice mechanic.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:56 pm

You're missing the point. Skyrim didn't have a switch class system. It just didn't have classes.

Skyrim was one of the ONLY TES games to not have a class/skill based system and it wasn't a well liked decision at all.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:00 am

You're missing the point. Skyrim didn't have a switch class system. It just didn't have classes.

I never said Skyrim had that system. It had archetypes you could freely move between if you so chose.

I'm speaking for the MMO, as it will have defined classes like traditional RPGs, can perhaps meld FFT/FFXI with how Skyrim worked.

Set classes you could switch between + having those classes have skills you can easily use and adopt as you see fit.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:27 pm

Or you could go for a system that ArcheAge is going to use.

http://archeage-online.com/about/classes

Choosing a class in ArcheAge is a rather unique affair.
You can choose from four premade classes (Warrior, Priest, Mage, Ranger) or…
…create your own custom class!
Here’s how the system works:
There are ten schools available during custom class creation, but you can only choose three.
Later you can switch schools, but you can never have more than three enabled at once.
You can eventually master a school; however, if you choose to switch one out for another (a very expensive operation) you’ll have to start over as an apprentice.
Overall there are 120 possible combinations available, so ArcheAge has effectively 120 classes!
Each school has it’s own unique skills and some schools work better together than others. Some skills can be combined to do extra damage, such as a levitation bubble and a telekinesis throw.
Here’s a translated list of the schools that were available in the closed beta tests:

Combat (Melee combat skills.)
Witchcraft (Debuffs and crowd control.)
Invincibility (Tank skills for damage-soaking and surviving.)
Will (Magical damage, magic defence, opening portals.)
Necromancy (Necromancy.)
Wild Nature (Ranger and taming skills.)
Magic (Magic.)
Assassin (Burst damage skills.)
Romance (Buffs, singing and dancing.)
Love (Healing and resurrection.)

» Mon May 14, 2012 8:05 am

Skyrim was one of the ONLY TES games to not have a class/skill based system and it wasn't a well liked decision at all.

None of the other games really had a class system either, except Arena. The most efficient route to playing Oblivion without scaling screwing you over was to roll a character of a class you had no intentions of playing as, so that level ups were controlled and gave at least decent benefits vs NPC strength increases.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:39 am

its still not a good system to fit in a TES game. Not only isnt it lore apropriate but you can either get XP in all the classes or have even more annoying grind to the the skills of the other ones, and yess i did in fact paly FF XI but i found it abyssmal.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:12 pm

Skyrim was one of the ONLY TES games to not have a class/skill based system and it wasn't a well liked decision at all.

I am aware of that.

I never said Skyrim had that system. It had archetypes you could freely move between if you so chose.

I'm speaking for the MMO, as it will have defined classes like traditional RPGs, can perhaps meld FFT/FFXI with how Skyrim worked.

Set classes you could switch between + having those classes have skills you can easily use and adopt as you see fit.

Well like I said I never played those FF games. So it could go either way. It would probably be more refreshing than having the usual dps/tank/heal type of class setup.

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:07 pm

nobody ever said that it will have defined classes as in Tank, DD and Heal btw. thats a misconception you made yourself.

Why i think that system is useless is because we dont have such a thing as a tank class or a DD class (at least from what they said) all Classes can play multiple roles, the classes however do determine the "flavour" of these roles. thats what i got from the interview. So yeah i dont see a reason for class switching.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:55 am

None of the other games really had a class system either, except Arena. The most efficient route to playing Oblivion without scaling screwing you over was to roll a character of a class you had no intentions of playing as, so that level ups were controlled and gave at least decent benefits vs NPC strength increases.

Um no totally untrue. I remember very vividly playing every TES from Arena to DF to MW to OB over and over again changing race's/class's and skill sets to make the perfect character type for the role i was playing. Skyrim was the only TES game to take that away from us and many were very disappointed.

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:53 am

its still not a good system to fit in a TES game. Not only isnt it lore apropriate but you can either get XP in all the classes or have even more annoying grind to the the skills of the other ones, and yess i did in fact paly FF XI but i found it abyssmal.

Lol I love the lore appropriate citation where it's completely irrelevant and easy to fit in.

And neither FFT nor FFXI had players get XP in classes they never played as.

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:32 am

Um no totally untrue. I remember very vividly playing every TES from Arena to DF to MW to OB over and over again changing race's/class's and skill sets to make the perfect character type for the role i was playing. Skyrim was the only TES game to take that away from us and many were very disappointed.

You must have never figured out how they worked then in conjunction with scaling. A "warrior" was the most powerful pure mage you could have, that's why they ditched the classes that didn't really make sense to how the games played from Daggerfall on up in Skyrim.

» Mon May 14, 2012 12:21 pm

Um no totally untrue. I remember very vividly playing every TES from Arena to DF to MW to OB over and over again changing race's/class's and skill sets to make the perfect character type for the role i was playing. Skyrim was the only TES game to take that away from us and many were very disappointed.

This is why i say a system like ArcheAge would go along way in appeasing some of the doubters.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Um no totally untrue. I remember very vividly playing every TES from Arena to DF to MW to OB over and over again changing race's/class's and skill sets to make the perfect character type for the role i was playing. Skyrim was the only TES game to take that away from us and many were very disappointed.

And yet in Oblivion I could create a toon that could heal, ranged dps, melee and debuff if I really wanted to. As I said earlier, that level of freedom is great for a singleplayer game, but does it work in an mmo where cooperative play and interpendency tends to be desired? Or do we want that level of freedom in an mmo?

I'm not asserting anything here, just bouncing ideas around to get some back.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:55 pm

nobody ever said that it will have defined classes as in Tank, DD and Heal btw. thats a misconception you made yourself.

I never said it would either? I don't think anyone did?

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:15 pm

And yet in Oblivion I could create a toon that could heal, ranged dps, melee and debuff if I really wanted to. As I said earlier, that level of freedom is great for a singleplayer game, but does it work in an mmo where cooperative play and interpendency tends to be desired? Or do we want that level of freedom in an mmo?

I'm not asserting anything here, just bouncing ideas around to get some back.

I don't think it will allow that sort of freedom, based on the whole "group of heroes" theme in the trailer. well not really a trailer but whatever you want to call that video.