So an hour ago I finished installing Dawnguard. I got the first crossbow, upgraded it to legendary, and this thing has become the greatest thing ever.

Crossbows already start with a good bonus to stagger, and when combined with power shot.. Oh man.

But the thing is, ranged destruction spells are pointless now. Destruction in this game was always gimped, and the only thing it had going for it was Impacts stagger. Now crossbows can do that, and more often to boot.

IE: no waiting for magika to recharge if you're not abusing Enchanting.

It also has significantly more damage, the ability to sneak attack criti, able to be enchanted, has special bolts, and can be smithed to become even more OP.

I mean unless you really want to be a 100% pure mage there seems to be no real point in leveling destruction now. At least thats how I see it.

bummer

I still like destruction though. With my 5 million fortify destruction potions I can still do decent damage.

...unless you're playing a character who enjoys casting ranged destruction spells.

Now, if you're powergaming and always feel this inner need to carry the pinnacle of everything all the time, then you'll do so. And that's alright.
But I promise many players will continue to bring the heat, throwing fastballs of destruction across the plate of foes. And that's alright as well.

As examples, my Tracker character uses the enhanced crossbow but will not use the enhanced dwarven crossbow. He prefers the look of the enhanced version and loathes all things dwarven. My Seeker uses Restoration, Conjuration and Alchemy. She's never even seen a crossbow, nor would she feel comfortable holding it. Too heavy, too clunky.

There is no right or wrong way to play a Single Player TES game. Play it as you choose. Powergame, roleplay, have a do-it-all or spread questlines across different character builds. Or, if you like, use the disc as a drink coaster. Nothing you do with your game will affect mine. So you can choose to use the crossbows or stick with destruction. I see no issue in choosing. You're not forced one way or the other. The enjoyment you get is yours, and yours alone, to choose.

Just one person's opinion, nothing more.

To bad vampire lord already ruined magic.

Hallelujah! Speak on Nefarious One! May they see the light!

Crossbows are very fun, so is shooting fire bolts into flammable spills and watching my foes burn.

Use em or not, you are in control!

Meh, I still prefer throwing fireball after fireball. Looks a lot more epic.

Fixed.

Um.. I pretty much said that already. See?



I never said that there was a right or wrong way to play the game. I'm just pointing out that mechanically crossbows make ranged destruction useless. I never said for anyone to stop using destruction.



Duh?

im actually finding that crossbows are not that over powered as they seem. they may have a higher base damage, but they take twice as long to reload and fire than it is for me to fire two dual weilded destruction spells.

not only that but something ive noticed about using the crossbow is that there is no blocking, just a melee swipe, and you can not run while reloading.

the crossbow makes an excellent stealth, or one on one weapon. but i am finding myself switching back to my incinerate spells when dealing with larger groups of people...

...actually, the vampire lord power is much much more over powered, im pretty much indestructible when using that. if i find there is an enemy who is giving me a hard time while im in the vampire lord transformation i just use that force grab power and fling them far away.

Do you have the quick shot perk?

yep. it takes 1 sec tops to fire dual incinerate spells. compared to something like 2+ seconds for the crossbow.

and you don't really have to worry about magicka if you have just a couple vanilla enchantments and use mid level destruction spells, (mid level spells are better any ways because their low cost in the latter game allows you to cast them more often with virtually no breaks for a higher dps than the master level destruction spells)

There is always a better build... when I make characters I make them to suit the playstyle I am going for, not to cause max damage. My archer character is using the crossbows and they are indeed awesome, but other characters are still viable and fun.

I prefer combining multiple magics together, tbh. Crossbows (or so ive been told) are better for archers in dps, but, can you throw paralyze then spam chainlighting? Or use invis+dagger to get multiple sneak attacks? All are good options. But im not gonna lie, i cant WAIT to use these crossbows!! !

Crossbows are only good if you're an archer. Unless you're playing the game in a way that makes you God's God at the end game, crossbows will only be good for you if you invested in them. Personally, I'm an assassin so I have enough perks in Archery to make crossbows very good.

But there will be one thing that crossbows lack that destruction magic doesn't: Versatility. Yeah, yeah, the elemental bolts. However, in Destruction magic, it's not just the elements that are being manipulated. It's the very way you're playing. You can use that area of effect fireball but you can also do combinations far better. Like casting an Ice Storm and then sprinting in with a powerful Ice Spear right in the face before the Ice Storm finishes him off.

It's that very fast versatility. You can do combos far better with destruction magic.

I just started using the crossbow because my first character was a VL. It is amazing, I have the quick shot perk so it is not slow at reloading. Earlier I took down three deer easily. I am wearing Steel plate and an adapt Mage hood with the steel crossbow. Sort of a Paladin look to him.

This. It would be weird if a mage who hasn't touched a (cross)bow in his/her life suddenly wants to use it because he/she knows it's more powerful than magic.

Well.... In life we would certainly choose what would keep us alive. I tried a mage style play on an earlier character, and not being wise to how best construct him, wound up dumping magic almost entirely. Unless you are a skilled Rp'er who is very savvy, Mages are a tough way to go... Just my 2 Cents.

I really wanted to stick to the magic, but other areas were - well - much easier... for the record, I play for enjoyment - not added stress, i get enough of that! So my mage would use one... I'm a disgrace!!

Destruction is ridiculously gimped in this game, i have tried numerous characters and it is ridiculous that i have to wait until level 30 or higher to use a spell that doesnt just tickle my enemy, i dont know why bethesda does not see this.

It's all about how and why you play. Most more traditional players playing magic wielders are probably not going to opt for archery skills. My Paladin/Cleric, for example, uses maces and hammers, restoration and alteration and minor illusion. She didn't pick up a bow at all until the crossbow, and will never have a perk tree entry in archery (and shouldn't, really). Someone playing a mage specializing in Destruction may use Conjuration heavily as well, and will probably also focus somewhat on Alteration, and possibly Illusion and Restoration, but is unlikely to EVER pick up a pitfully powered bow (in their hands) of any sort. If you're a "mage" focusing on your Archery tree, you're not a mage at all, but a magic wielding Archer. Given that you can only reasonably hit level 50 something without purposefully grinding every skill, that's a limited number of perk points to spare. So *most* characters will focus on one means of doing damage, dabble in a second maybe, and focus the rest on "support" skills. IOW, if you perk here and there and dabble in everything you become not a hero that kicks @$$ with frieballs, but a dabbler who's half-a$$ed at everything.

My mage would never use a crossbow so destruction magic is not obsolete for me.

You know I was talking about it being obsolete gameplay wise, rather than personal preference right?

Destruction magic is cooler, but I kind of made this thread to point out how strong crossbows are, and how gimped destruction is. I actually prefer throwing firebolts over shooting crossbow bolts.

Want a bet?

Consider how many destruction spells I can fire in the time it takes to shoot, reload, aim then shoot again. Over time the destruction spells will deal much more damage in a non-sneak situation. Even in a sneak situation it would be close.

This is assuming you have cost reduction gear, sadly it's necessary for high level destruction use. But the damage is not 'gimped', dishing out 90 damage spells multiple times per second is nothing to laugh about.

On master, you will take bandit marauders out in 10 single casts (or 9 with 100/105 damage incinerates), which can be fired incredibly fast, taking that bandit out in a few seconds. Against draugr deathlords with the necromage perk and fire magic, it will take less than 10 shots to down one on master, fired incredibly fast. Much faster than shooting a bow/crossbow and reloading.

I'm not sure how much damage you have smithed your crossbow to do, if you've abused the mechanics to deal 500 damage a shot then I'm not going to bother, I consider that a ridiculous way to play the game. I'd like to know how much damage your CB deals per shot, unless it's 500+ destruction will be superior.

I think maybe you're missing the point... from a gameplay standpoint. The only way your character would "know" is because you, the "omniscient" player knows. The only way it would be oboleted is if you, the player, choose to use what you consider to be the most powerful/best weapons. A Destruction mage who can spam fireballs and kill Draugr Death Overlords in a shot or two, if he picks up a bow for the first time, it's going to be like using a spitball. YOU, the player, YOU are making the choice for your character, based on your knowledge of what this or that weapon can become, not what the character knows. This is an action game mentality. Luckily, Skyrim CAN be played as an action game, if you wish to do so, but then you miss so much of the richness of the game.

What? I think you're missing the point. I'm not talking about roleplay. I never even suggested that. I'm simply saying that crossbows out classes destruction in this game. From a lore standpoint or in the previous games destruction magic was superior to the other offensive options in terms of sheer damage.

I'm only saying that in THIS game in terms of game mechanics Destruction is horribly weak unless you stay at level 1 or something.

And also Skyrim is pretty much an action game, though it is roleplaying as well. Almost every quest you do pretty much requires that you kill something. Especially the main quest.