Dear ZOS.......NO RAIDS! : Othor Games

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:09 am

Whats the problem with having open ended zones with bosses that require lots of players to tackle. In fact encounters like the Emerald Dragons are more fun because of the Spontaneity and uncertainity that they bring.

And who's to say that they won't have both World bosses (open world ones) and instanced raids?

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:42 am

And you know this how? You are aware that there are other games besides WoW as well that have Raids right? and did you ever think that there is maybe a reason why raid content is so focused on in WoW? (although that's far from being the only area of the game that time and money are spent upon).

If you don't like raids that's fine, but don't make other people, and more importantly THE GAME suffer just because of that. To do so is just being selfish.

And everyone of them are considered WoW clones and dismal failures as far as subscription numbers are concerned. Rift, AoC, TSW, LotRO and the likes are mostly considered WoW clones because of certain features which are predominant, raiding being one of them.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:39 pm

becasue any game that includes raiding quickly becomes the only thing the developers focus on at the expense of all other endgame models whcih have shown through many games to retain jsut as many players as Raiding.

They don't have to do raid zones at the expense of all other content. WoW and the WoW clones do that simply because that's their primary path of gear progression and story progression designed into that game.

Having raids, in no way, will guarantee that players will find that the sole-method of progression... especially when the best gear is apparently obtainable via crafting and PVP as well as PVE.

Remember the lesson of WoW 25 man vs 10 man raids. Soon as they itemized both to be equal quality... the 25 man raids totally started dying off in favor of the less-stress inducing easier to control/form 10 man raids. If loot itemization did that... imagine how it will be when you can obtain all the same loot via Crafting, PVP and PVE dungeons/questing!

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:35 am

And everyone of them are considered WoW clones and dismal failures as far as subscription numbers are concerned. Rift, AoC, TSW, LotRO and the likes are mostly considered WoW clones because of certain features which are predominant, raiding being one of them.

Incorrect. Rift is doing fine with subscriptions and has released a critically acclaimed expansion pack. LotRO is still one of the most popular MMOs available. AoC failed because it front-loaded its content and didn't polish the rear, and TSW was too far removed as an MMO to hold subscriptions.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:19 pm

I'm guessing developers can track what players are doing. Yet they all abandon what 90% of their customers purchase to cater to a "vocal minority" of 10%? No company on earth would do that. None of that makes sense.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:40 am

And everyone of them are considered WoW clones and dismal failures as far as subscription numbers are concerned. Rift, AoC, TSW, LotRO and the likes are mostly considered WoW clones because of certain features which are predominant, raiding being one of them.

...and those games have pvp as well, so does WoW...so we should campaign to get pvp out of ESO as well.....man you're a freakin' genius.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:17 am

And everyone of them are considered WoW clones and dismal failures as far as subscription numbers are concerned. Rift, AoC, TSW, LotRO and the likes are mostly considered WoW clones because of certain features which are predominant, raiding being one of them.

..... *facepalm*

Umm no, having raids doesn't make it a "WoW clone" actually, but the fact that you do think so tells us a lot about yourself I think so thanks for that, I know now I'm wasting my time here.

For the record though, Rift and LOTRO are far from fails.

Please just stop. We understand you dislike raiding, great, to continue now is to just pointlessly embarrass and discredit yourself more than you have already...

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:52 am

What's the problem with having both?

becasue the organized raids will always take precedence as seen in any MMO that featured Raiding as the PvE endgame.

Listen this isnt a Flame Bait post its a post based on the facts of certain systems as evident through alot of data. I don't even Like PvP (any more) I am a PvE'er in my Old Age and I don't even know if ESO's AvA will be worth my time but I am a huge fan of Elder Scrolls and Small Group Based content.

Let me ask you one simple question, would you Raid if there was no rewards whatsoever? If you said yes then I will support the inclusion of Raiding but as soon as you bring loot into the equation then raiding will inevitably be the ONLY content the developers work on with any degree of alacrity.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:50 pm

becasue the organized raids will always take precedence as seen in any MMO that featured Raiding as the PvE endgame.

Listen this isnt a Flame Bait post its a post based on the facts of certain systems as evident through alot of data. I don't even Like PvP (any more) I am a PvE'er in my Old Age and I don't even know if ESO's AvA will be worth my time but I am a huge fan of Elder Scrolls and Small Group Based content.

Let me ask you one simple question, would you Raid if there was no rewards whatsoever? If you said yes then I will support the inclusion of Raiding but as soon as you bring loot into the equation then raiding will inevitably be the ONLY content the developers work on with any degree of alacrity.

So now you are done with making up facts, refusing to supply your source for your "data", you are know down to knowing what the developers will and wont do in terms of their own game ?

....just stop posting....

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:50 pm

Let me ask you one simple question, would you Raid if there was no rewards whatsoever? If you said yes then I will support the inclusion of Raiding but as soon as you bring loot into the equation then raiding will inevitably be the ONLY content the developers work on with any degree of alacrity.

If they bothered to actually move forward with raiding and deepened and expand upon the experience (see the raiding: IV thread for examples) then I'd be one of the first in line, with or without gear. But I still believe the gear is important as it's a far longer lasting form of PvE endgame than anything else ever come up yet.

Also that is very far from true for most games that raiding is the ONLY part of the game that the devs work on.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:36 am

becasue the organized raids will always take precedence as seen in any MMO that featured Raiding as the PvE endgame.

...and THAT is your problem right there.

Raiding has NOT been shown to be the focus of PvE endgame in ES:O. In fact, the final encounter to wrap up the primary Molag Bal storyline that is the point of the game has been said by Zeni will be a primarily SINGLE PLAYER experience.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:25 pm

If they bothered to actually move forward with raiding and deepened and expand upon the experience (see the raiding: IV thread for examples) then I'd be one of the first in line, with or without gear. But I still believe the gear is important as it's a far longer lasting form of PvE endgame than anything else ever come up yet.

Also that is very far from true for most games that raiding is the ONLY part of the game that the devs work on.

Dude i would just stop answering him...at this point im pretty sure hes just trolling...or hes a GW2 developer trying to sabotage the game that will end their game.

» Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:31 am

Secondly, please see my post on the first post here http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1450868-dear-zos-raiding-is-a-priority-iv/ for how raiding could actually be made fun while still retaining it's purpose. Just because raiding has largely been boring and dull in past games, does not mean it has to be doomed to be like that for forever.

Raiding has also traditionally been destructive to everything not-raiding.

Your proposals don't fix that; in fact, some of them threaten to make it worse.