My prufuse apologies. I promise I will never do that again. I shall now say 3 Hail Marys and 2 Lord's Prayers in repentence.
:hubbahubba:

-Gunny out.

The proper tool for the proper job. If I knew I was going after a bear, I'd have a .45-70 lever action, not a P220 or even a Deagle....though the Deagle is a appropriate weapon for that. OTOH, if I were going into a firefight I'd much prefer to have a P220 than a Deagle. While .50AE will mess a person up if it hits them, a Deagle is a poor combat weapon, and a P220 is a excellent one. That's why one sees SPECOPS and SWAT operators often carrying P220s and P226s but never Deagles. A .50AE semi-auto carbine could have potential, though.

I don't have a problem with them being in the game....lots of people like them, and they do look cool...but justifying including the Deagle by saying it's a practical combat weapon is plain silly.

First, I never mentioned anything about actual combat in this thread.

Secondly, practicality is in the eyes of the shooter and alters with the situation. In reality being able to sling alot of lead quickly is obviously more desirable than putting a massive hole in a victim's head. However, every gun has it's practical purpose in various combat situations, if it can kill it has a practical purpose. Desert Eagle is more intended for hunting, but doesn't mean it can't be practical in a combat situation, it depends on the situation.

But also video game practicality and real life practicality are two different definitions. In Fallout NV the Desert Eagle would be just as practical and possibly even more so than the revolvers, with it being as powerful, holding more rounds (9 rounds 357 mag, 8 rounds .44 mag, 7 rounds .50) and reloading quicker would give it a tactical advantage over the revolvers.

I am up for DEagle.

It's not my favourite gun, but more variety is better. To be honest the game needs some shiny toys to play with. I don't see my self wearing power suit using .357 or Ranger Sequoia, I look like some sort of future cowboy or something. Desert Eagle would look and feel awesome with my PA suit.

Why am I here? Are only people who agree with thread topics are supposed to post? Isn't the point of a forum for people to discuss both sides of a topic so people can see new ideas and have a solid conclusive stance on the issue?

I stated why I think it wouldn't be a good choice from a game balancing stand point considering the 12.7mm pistol is very similar and it would be redundant to have it along side it.

As for the comments about the real world 'pracicality' of the Desert Eagle, let's discuss. I've done a lot of research and general consensus is that it was created as an exercise. Which is likely considering it uses a gas system which is actually more similar to any rifle than a normal handgun. Silhouette shooting and hunting were the only other possible avenues it could be taken seriously(Which some do actually. There are plenty of people who hunt with it) The main reason it is as popular as it is today? There is now a huge market for it. Is it because it is the most efficient hunting tool? Most likely not. Is it because hollywood has immortalized it and it is fun to shoot? Yes. I'm used to shotguns since I own two and can't purchase a handgun until December but have shot a few quite a bit owned by friends. I got to shoot a DE once and it was great, unlike anything I had ever shot. It was FUN. I don't dislike the Desert Eagle, I like it for what it is, if I had more money I would get one.

Is it accurate? Yes. Does it fire a powerful round? The smallest thing you can put through it is a .357 so YES. On the flip side, you have 4 pound piece of metal that is known for it's unreliability and very difficult to handle. And shooting at night with any degree is impossible with the muzzle flash.

Shot Placement > Caliber. If the Desert Eagle was practical you would see people do well with it in competition shooting and not the 1911 which is the dominant competition shooter. There is no point carrying something as unwieldly as the DE just because it fires a big round. If you need something that strong, then a pistol isn't the format you want to use that firepower, that is where a rifle comes in. It is highly likely that if you did shoot someone with a DE they would have likely been stopped if you had shot them with a .45 or a 9mm. And yes it would stop a bear better than a P220, but the P220 was designed for combat, not hunting. The DE was designed for the design and can also be used in hunting. I guess the SEALS should adopt the DE then and ditch the Sigs? In terms of practicality it fills a void that doesn't need filling.

As for it's practicality in game, we already have the Hunting Revolver and the 12.7mm Pistol as the automatic counterpart.

I'm not trying to be rude, if I came off that way I'm sorry, I'm just pointing out the other side of the coin.

First, you are basing your thoughts of similarities entirely on the cartridge. There are no similarities between the 12.7MM pistol and a Desert Eagle beyond the cartridge it would fire if it were put in the game as a .50. However there are similarities between the 9MM pistol and 1911 and unless they introduce .45 ACP you should be repeating yourself from this thread against the 1911, but your not which means you are not applying your opinion consistently which invalidates it all together.

Not that it really had anything behind it considering the .357 Magnum has three revolvers that use the round.



Hollywood made the S&W Model 29 famous with the Dirty Harry movies, there is really nothing wrong with Hollywood immortalizing a weapon if it's got something to actually back it up and in the Desert Eagle's and S&W M29's case, they do. Most firearm enthusiasts tend to dislike guns hollywood puts in their movies, to the point where they'll over exaggerate flaws or outright lie about guns.


Actually, the unreliability of the DE is quite over exaggerated. While it's not like an AK47 or 1911, if proper ammo is used, the gun kept clean it should function properly with very few hickups. Jams are usually caused by poor ammo, limp wristing, and bad maintenance.

4 pounds ain't that heavy, I have handled a Desert Eagle and like the weight of the weapon myself. And the weight proves useful when firing such a large cartridge, would you think it would be any better to fire a .50AE round out of a pistol that weighed as much as a compact glock? I highly doubt you would...



If you were going to compete with a Desert Eagle you'd have to put it in a class with magnum caliber revolvers, it only makes sense. It fires a round that makes the 1911's .45 ACP look like a BB gun, and with that power comes heavy recoil. A .357 Magnum Desert Eagle would be better for competition shooting against guns like the 1911 considering the .357 in the DE has little recoil. I've heard of people doing well with the .357 Desert Eagle in competition shooting actually.

Rifles (with the exception of automatics) aren't exactly choice material for corridor shooting, and a Desert Eagle would be easier to maneuver than a full shotgun.



9mm, Maria, 10MM, weathered 10MM... We don't need the 1911 :dance:



The other side of the coin is primarily nit picking when thoroughly evaluated.

Theres so much wrong with that post I almost can't be bothered...But I will anyway..



I fail to see how the 1911 and the Browning Hi Power which have different magazine capacities and use different cartridges are more similar than two pistols that only differ aesthetically.



I agree, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm stating the reason it is popular is BECAUSE of that and not because it is an 'uber tactical-practical all purpose weapon'



Again I agree. Jams are more frequent with the lower calibers. .50 DE has less issues. Still in terms of reliability it is extremely far off from the likes of quality 1911's and the P226 for example, which is another point against it.



Despite what you say 4 pounds is extremely heavy for a handgun. Although you and a few may like it the vast majority of even owners agree it is uncomfortably heavy. Yes the weight does prove useful in reducing felt recoil but at an extreme cost.



Of course it would only make sense to compare the DE with other magnum caliber handguns because it is inferior to standard caliber handguns in terms of handling! Again the godly power of the cartridge is moot if you can't hit the target. A .22 that lands is better than a .50 that misses.(I searched everywhere for evidence that anyone has competed with the 357DE let alone do well against standard caliber handguns and found nothing)



I'm going to pretend you didn't say that.



Again none of those pistols share the same magazine capacity or even cartridge so the 1911 would be a perfectly balanced addition. Considering the 1911 IS going to be added to the game I think that only attests to the fact :dance:




? I openly stated both the pros and cons of the firearm, how did I in any way nit pick?

Nothing wrong with my post


The DE is capable of using 3 different calibers for starters, and depending on the caliber would alter the mag size. Regardless, unless the .45 ACP round is being used it's just going to be an 8 count 10MM pistol.


The 1911 is nearly 2.5 pounds, around 1.5 (or a little more) pounds lighter than the Desert Eagle. 4 pounds isn't that heavy...



Which is why .22 and .50 are in two totally different classes, a .22 would be easier to control for follow up shots but it's a weak round and is best used for squirrel hunting or plinking.

I've only heard through discussion, and really shouldn't be read too much into.



Maybe I should have worded it differently, handgun maneuverability far surpasses rifles and shotguns.



First of all, personally I'm not detesting the addition of the 1911. But given there is already a gun in game that looks alot like it already, and would most likely mirror the 10MM ratings other than mag size wouldn't do anything for balance. It's obviously being added because of it's iconic status...

Secondly, .357 Magnum has three pistols that have the same ammo count, two if you don't count "lucky". What would be the problem of adding a Desert Eagle based on mag size and cartridge?

Thirdly, The Desert Eagle can and if is, will most likely be added as .44 Magnum. Which not only would it be the only semi-auto that fired the cartridge, it would have an increased capacity over the revolvers, thus rendering your argument against it nullified.




You were nitpicking with the "same mag size, same cartridge" argument, like it really means anything.

That's up for debate.



The ammo it will use can only be speculated. Either way it can easily be balanced considering it isn't a handcannon like the 12.7mm pistol. I made the comparison between the 12.7mm pistol and the 1911 based on capacity and Sawyer himself replied the 12.7mm lacks accuracy. It is likely the 1911 will function as somewhat weaker but more accurate. There goes the 1911 balancing issues.



Um, ok?



See above.



A gun with a higher capacity(real life), very accurate(stated yourself) and reloads much quicker(magazine vs single fed cylinder). What would then be the incentive to use the revolvers if there was an automatic counterpart?



Same arguement as above



Magazine size and cartidges don't mean anything? Then let's make the 1911 hold 20 rounds and use .44 magnum ammo.

They made the 12.7MM pistol so terrible that most likely the Desert Eagle would be pretty much an overall improvement, cos I don't see the DE having a damage less than 40 and the accuracy would be considerably better most likely. And the HP is so low on the 12.7MM that trading off power and accuracy for degradation would make it a joke.


I've thought this through a bit actually...

Dam: 39 (3 points above standard .44 Magnum, 3 below the MM)
Spread: between .35 - .45
weight: 4.5 lbs, heavier than both revolvers
HP: 100, less than both revolvers, degrades faster.

And unlike the revolvers which have their damage multiplied by the "cowboy" perk, the Desert Eagle would only have the "Bloody Mess" perk which effects all weapons. It would put the damage between the standard .44 Magnum Revolver, and the Mysterious Magnum but be less durable than both while being more accurate. With perks the revolvers would produce more damage than the DE.

I've considered suggesting jacketed rounds for the .44 magnum so that it would be possible to slow down the degradation of the DE, but adding another AP and HP round would make the .44 have a total of 6 ammo types. So, the DE needing jacketed rounds would just have to be a detail we'll have to ignore. :/

Pros: It would be accurate, hold more rounds, slightly more powerful than bare standard .44 Magnum Revolver

Cons: Degrades faster, is heavier, and the revolvers would provide more damage through perks.




What does that got to do with the Desert Eagle being canceled out by the 12.7MM pistol?

Good point



I suppose that could work, especially considering the cowboy perk and health.




ALOT if the weapon balance stystem is going to be even semi-realistic.



Yes, a steel 1911 is considered heavy in the handgun world. Add a pound and a half to that and that is cartoonishly heavy for a handgun in any practical combat use short of having fun or shooting big bad burrz. I've never seen someone say the Desert Eagle 'isn't that heavy' until now.

And if weight is an issue you can go with a scandium or aluminum frame 1911 and shed half a pound. And with that you have what many call the best handgun design ever made.

IMO if the 12.7MM is supposed to be a fictional variation of the .50 AE the minimal damage should be higher than 40. I'd expect it to fall anywhere between 45 - 48, if they amped up the power of the 12.7MM as well as the HP there could be some room to work.


The balance system sometimes burns my whiskers... The balance system only works if you've got something to counter balance with, which the 12.7MM pistol doesn't. If the 12.7MM isn't improved you couldn't make a weapon that didn't either under perform the round, be uber fragile, or inaccurate as a $20 pea shooter.



The handgun world needs to hit the gym! lol

Now that I think about it the 12.7mm pistol is pretty underpowered. Even the 12.7mm submachingun varient is only a few points weaker and that's fully automatic with 3 times the rounds.

The 12.7MM SMG has 36 damage, which is equal to the standard .44 magnum.

But also I suppose it's worthy to note that the box art for the 12.7MM rounds are labeled as "Civic Defense Rounds", the .50 AE is a full fledged hunting round which could possibly indicate that the 12.7MM could very well possibly be what .38 Special is to a .357 Magnum.

Could make a .50 Magnum round which would improve the power of the 12.7MM pistol, and open a door to introduce the DE as a .50 caliber.

This would also open the door for new ammo variants for the 12.7MM, other than just standard and hollow point.

I've always theorized that the 12.7MM may be the equivalent of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_GI but that would make the 12.7MM more on par with the 10MM in terms of power.

Just throwing this out there: I made a mod for my game that used real life metrics to balance the weapons against each other. It didin't change the range of weapons stats from worst to best, just where each weapon should fit in that range. The 12.7mm Pistol, using the real life .50AE round as the model, does 57 DAM with a spread of .738. Just a little bit of info.

-Gunny out.

What kind of formula did you use to achieve these numbers?

My own secret recipe. Blend of the "Big Hole" and "Energy Kills" theories. Add some spice for each weapon from it's specs like barrel length, weight, recoil factor, etc., shoot a bunch of guns just like 'em to get effective rates of fire and reload times, change some ammo effects to be more realistic and viola!, I now have very accurate to real life performance with regards to DAM, spread, ROF, reload, weight, mag size, etc. My guns actually feel like they shoot IRL. I had a pretty big thread on what I was doing and posted the final numbers somewhere. If I wasn't too lazy, I'd link ya to it. Feel free to use 'em if you want. A lot of the stuff I changed seems to be similar to what Josh later did in the newest patch. I'm gonna redo some of my mod now that Josh has changed his position on accuracy for full-auto weapons. I always thought the range he gave them was too high.

-Gunny out.

I don't have a PC powerful enough to run Fallout: NV.

If I did I wouldn't be begging for a Desert Eagle as DLC material lol

Good point.

-Gunny out.

The "Limited New Vegas" desert eagle mod on New Vegas Nexus is pretty beautiful! If I ever win the lottery I'm gonna have a DE custom engraved like that, grips and all.

they'd work, but i'd prefer any plain ol' 12 gauge, slug shot, backed up with a "taurus judge", with 410 shot shells, for mama or papa bears face, and the obvious maneuverability. if i felt like being a jerk-off, i'd go with "cross force load .45" in the taurus...bye bear. deagle's pretty cumbersom, and long (and flashy). however, would still love to have the mighty deagle .44 or .50 on my side on a fishin' trip in bear country. would also love to see either handgun in FO dlc.

I will reiterate my original position: I don't have a problem adding a "Desert Eagle" like weapon in a future DLC. There is room for another semi-auto magnum sized pistol in the hiarchy. Due to two points, I believe it would be most appropriate for the weapon to be chambered in .44 magnum:

1. In the FO universe, when it has previously appeared, it was chambered in that caliber.
2. There is already a semi-auto handgun chambered in a .50 auto-pistol round, the 12.7mm.

Based on there above, it makes the most sense, gameplay wise, lore wise and from a realistic standpoint for the weapon to be in .44 mag. I think it would fill a nice hole in the weapon tier, unless the new M1911 slots in at that level. If the M1911, power-wise, comes in around where the .44 mag is, then I could accept the addition of .50 Magnum ammo to the game, with the DE chambered for that, as Shay has proposed. This could place it in a tier above the 12.7mm pistol, and bridge the gap closer to the Ranger Sequoia and the Hunting Revolver.

-Gunny out.

I'm thinking that if they introduce a standard DE and a unique DE, the standard could be .44 Magnum and the Unique using 12.7MM ammo to avoid coding new ammo. The 12.7MM could be rebalanced to be the lower tier weapon with a faster RoF, and a higher mag capacity, but the unique DE being the accurate powerhouse higher tier that would be between the .45-70 Revolvers.

Yeah I think a .44 magnum version could be possible, especially considering it was chambered in that in previous fallouts. I just hope if it does end up in a DLC they make it black and have a worn look and not brand new stainless steel lol.

Chrome or Nickle would be better, something like in the appearance of the .44 Revolver after modding it with the heavy frame.