Hi all,

The following may look like a wall of text but I urge everyone, especially, anyone having problems with CK NPC dialogue or any skilled CK user to read through and respectfully ask any one that can to help. It would be great too if this can be passed on by a forum mod to the dev team!

Having followed the ‘GSQ01’ tutorial¹ to the letter creating only what it says to and doing only as instructed and having got as far as creating the topic and yes / no answers and linked them, I have come across a problem in the CK / game whereby Dialogue given to an NPC in the CK does not appear in game. This is just before starting the scripting part of the tutorial.

Though the problem is remarked upon in another thread², I am posting this* to try and get an answer as to how to fix the problem as it would seem the other thread has slipped down the forum thread list out of sight (maybe out of mind to a lot of posters too!)

---

The problem;

With the CK running, load 'Skyrim.esm' data and get to work on the 'GSQ01' quest in the CK dialogue tutorial.

Before starting the script part of the tutorial, the dialogue should now work in game. The dialog working point is made in the tutorial;

'Now, when the player selects the prompt "Do you need help with anything?", Bendu will say his line and then present the player with another list of choices based on the links from that topic. The choices will be listed in the order they were linked from that topic.'

The dialogue does not work though and In game testing goes something like this;

Scene: Inside Mixwater Mill Workers House.

Actors: Player Character (PC) and Bendu Olo

Conversation:

[E] Talk - Bendu Olo.

(Press 'E' to start conversation.)

PC > Bendu Olo - 'Do you need help with anything?'.

(Press 'E' to submit question.)

NO RESPONSE FROM BENDU OLO.

PC > Bendu Olo {1} - 'Sure, I can do that.'
PC > Bendu Olo {2} - 'Sorry, not right now.'

(Select either option then press 'E' to continue conversation.)

NO RESPONSE FROM BENDU OLO.

PC > Bendu Olo - 'Do you need help with anything?'.

This is always the same when the player character talks to Bendu.

---

I have CK set to 'Run as Administrator' as someone suggested this in a different CK thread - sorry I did not bookmark it so no link.

Though I have a fair bit of computing / IT experience, I was deliberately following the tutorial as the CK and 'modding' in TES are new to me.

I have looked and looked for anything that I or the tutorial may have missed to no avail.

I have tried removing all traces I could find of the ‘GSQ01’ quest from creation kit, game and saves (D:\Programs\Steam\SteamApps\common\skyrim\Data) then restarting PC. This has been done each time I have tried to make the dialogue work!

I experience the problem in game with the CK still up and running and with the CK closed. I tested both scenarios just in case the error was caused by two applications trying to access the quest file.

I have also tried (succesfully) to verify the Skyrim game files through Steam.

My basic PC stats are in my sig for reference.

PLEASE! I am asking if anyone knows why this is not working, a work around or how to get this to work as it should. If that person is you, please share!

If it is that I'm missing some step or something, I would be more than happy to be corrected.

If this is a CK or Skyrim issue then I would be put off having to wait for a fix but would bide my time. (Hopefully not for too long.)

Either way, I feel I do not wish to download any quest 'mods' that may be badly affected by this issue or continue with the CK with the potential of releasing broken 'mods' to the community.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can give constructive advice on this issue.

¹ 'GSQ01' is http://www.creationkit.com/Bethesda_Tutorial_Dialogue.
2 Similar other thread is http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1348264-quest-starting-dialogue-not-appearing-on-custom-npc/page__gopid__20390217.
* This post is adapted from posts in the other thread.

Hi,

I was contacted (PM) by another user and given some suggestions as to how to solve this 'dialogue' problem. I will not name the other user but I do wish to express my thanks for the suggestions given.

Below is my reply to that other user - adapted slightly for this thread.

---

In my naivety, I assumed that the Steam Skyrim update system would fully update Skyrim and that running game cache verification for Skyrim from Steam would confirm (or not) any file issues! But then Steam regularly throws a spanner in the works so to speak.

So, as I type this, I have Steam client up and running - here goes the checks!

Got Steam set to always keep this game up to date - check.

View Skyrim update history - clicking link sends to 'news' not personal update history - no use whatever to me.

Check game directory for TESV version - check - version is 1.4.21.0 size is 16.7 MB - this seems to be correct.

Check CK version - check - CK version is 1.4.23.0 - seems OK.

Back to Steam and verify integrity of game cache - check - validation completed with all files validated successfully.

Look for fragmentation - check - Steam report 0% fragmentation.

Check Steam DLC in case I missed something -check - only have the Skyrim HR texture pack from Beth!

Double check any mods or addons I have in use for Skyrim - check - I have non except the above mentioned texture pack.

Right click Skyrim in Steam and check menu for a way to force a re-update - check - no way found.

Select Skyrim properties in Steam and try a forced update from there - check unable to do - no method found.

Checking done for now!

Retest the CK dialogue issue (this took a while) - done - issue remains.

The only way I can see to further test or alter Skyrim or the creation kit is to wipe bothe from my PC and do a complete reinstall of both. This is in no way ideal as it would take a long time with my ADSL connection (speedtest.net regularly reports this at around 2.5 Mbps) and would eat in to my monthly download allowance.

I did think of simply deleting TESV.exe (I have it backed up) and trying to update - thus getting a new TESV.exe but this seems pointless as TESV.exe uses many more files.

So, thank you for the suggestions. I really appreciate your attempt to help. I remain unable to continue with the CK though.

Have update this thread with this answer - will adapt it slightly for the thread.

---

So, anyone got any suggestions on how to force an update to try to fix this issue?

Is it simply a fact that I need to remove Skyrim and the CK and reinstall? (Both seem fine and not in need of replacement.) See between horizontal lines why I do not wish to do this.

Does Bethesda even care that users have major problems with the CK (not just with dialogue)? For examples of the problems check http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352954-unofficial-creation-kit-modding-bug-list-3/.

Is there a CK fix on the way?

Answers on a postcard to ... ahem .. just post answers here. LOL.

Edit; I am not trying to make Beth look bad or saying the CK is incomplete or useless and I relly do think that Skyrim and The CK are great - apart from the odd hiccup. I simply want to use the CK as a Creation Kit rather than as the unused due to usability issues HDD space filler it currently seems to be (for me).

Did you add a voice file to each info (NPC response)?
The tutorial states that even with captions forced it will flash by so fast you may not see the response.
I had to add two or three second blank voice files to each info (NPC response) in order for them to display long enough to read.

I did everything exactly how the tutorial says up to the end of the 'linking Dialogue' part, just before the 'Scripting Dialogue' part where it says;

'Now, when the player selects the prompt "Do you need help with anything?", Bendu will say his line and then present the player with another list of choices based on the links from that topic. The choices will be listed in the order they were linked from that topic.'

In the sections before the 'Scripting Dialogue', I do not seem to be able to find any note about the response be to fast to see!

I did find this much later though - now that I looked;

'It flashes directly to the next choice list. (Since there's no audio, if you don't have captions on, you won't have any idea what he said. Even if you do, they probably flashed by so quickly you couldn't read.)'

To me, this warning should be directly under the 'Now, when .... ' line as, I feel I took that line to its word and, with no warning, saw a fault that is potentially an application killer.

I was and still am following the tutorial and I know how easy it is to make mistakes if I, or for that matter any other CK user following said tutorial, read ahead. That, I think Is why I have the problem and this is the fault of the tutorial writer - having made assumption that the reader would not try out the 'GSQ01' and then see the 'perceived' error at the point of the tutorial as discussed.

I feel that, with no clear indication of a problem or solution to the problem before the 'Scripting Dialogue' section, the tutorial is at best lacking and should be updated to stress the known issues before the 'Scripting Dialogue' section to help the reader avoid confusion and stop any idea of the CK being at fault.

As for recording 'empty' sound files to combat this issue, I personally think this is (potentially) a great fix but should not be needed. Surely a timer or switch of some kind could be put on the response to ensure its readability to the end user. I did think of this but as yet have found no such function in the CK. EDIT: On reflection, I suppose the empty recording is the timer! LOL.

Of course, I should now and without exception read ahead on all the tutorials.

I will go back to the CK later today, armed with the information and ideas presented and hopefully have better luck.

I may even reply here today as to my endeavors - time given.

Thanks for the assistance.

Yes, the ability to set a delay on the response so it paused would be more convenient ... but oh well.
The funny thing is that if you add a blank voice file the actor still does the lip movement as if there is a real audio file. lol
If you are going to use empty voice files make sure to check "force captions" for the responses, in case the player has that shut off in their settings (like I did).

I tend not to complain about the tutorials because any tutorial is better than none when you are new to the CK.

Yeah, my quest for an answer does seem like a complaint in a way. (I know you are not saying that).

It is true that any tutorial is better than non too.

Any way, thanks again for the help. As said earlier, I will be going back to the CK today. I just need to do a few other things.

NPC doesn't say a topic?

In testing, NPC appears to not say anything.

Have yet to test the idea, but this seems to be an issue where the NPC says the line (or subtitle) so fast as it looks like nothing is said.

When I get back to the CK I will test Kreig's ideas.

I will at some point reply as to my findings.

Firstly: Check there is condition in dialogue GetsID and your NPC is unique

The topic works, the response happens so fast (if there is nothing to slow it down like a voice file) that you don't see it.
If you have captions off, you will never see aything if the force caption is not selected for the response.
Even then if there is nothing to slow it down it's gone before you can read it.

The best answer to this is to get a mic and make voice files so players can hear the dialog and not have to rely on captions.
While testing, the blank voice files work fine, but kill immersion just a tad. lol

It happens even with unique NPCs and having the GetIsID condition setup.

There is and it is, I followed the tutorial exactly as I said earlier. LOL.




I will be going back to the CK in about half an hour! Just talking long distance with sister and need to wrap that up. LOL.

I can't for the life of me figure out how to get an NPC to say two things in a row between player intervention, so if you find something, UKNight, we're even.

ROFL !

Guys, here's the news regarding the CK; I'm going in! Cover me!

Will report back as soon as I played about a bit in CK.

Hi all,

Wow! Wow! Wow!

It's ALiiVe!!

Thanks so much for the help.

I tried simply recording an 'empty' track and this fixed the issue straight away. So, yes, before presenting a fault for discussion, I will now read ahead some on the tutorials.

It really is so easy to make oneself appear 'as daft as a brush' sometimes. LOL.

Thing is, I was not happy using the CK recorder so I used Audacity to record my voice acting* as .wav files. Audicity allows .wav manipulation such as noise cancellation which is great.

Getting the .lip files to create from .wav imported to the CK was a, welcome, challenge that I overcame with just a little frustration. I was going to explain how I imported the .wav files and got the .lip files to create properly but I want to see about changing 'idle' speech on the NPC first! Maybe when I find this out I can post a topic on it all. I am starting to write the .wav .lip thing up tonight before logging of - in word.

The important thing is that now the quest dialogue works (up to 'Additional Dialogue' which I will do later) well.

My voice on the NPC sounds weird but that is mainly because my voice does not go well with the NPC and not at all well with the normal NPC (idle) voice.

*My voice is only so so for voice acting!

I was also facing this issue before I found that little note at the end of the tutorial. They really should bring that note up, right before claiming that it's supposed to work without more steps. It leads people thinking that they missed a step.

I could not agree more.

You just had to do it did'n'ya! Now I have to go look how to do that for my own NPCs!

I also want to have my NPCs say voice acted stuff rather than the stock stuff when 'idle'.

Ganna be a coupla long days ahead!

EDIT: 12:59 - what a coincidence.

Yay UKNight ... way to git 'er done.

I figured out the multiline response thing too.
You MUST add the lines in the "Topic Info" dialog it seems. They then just run one after the other.
I could not find this in a tutorial, so I'll instead bury it in a forum thread.

If you explain this clearly, I'll be happy to add it to the wiki for you... save some other folks some headaches.

Well folks, it's 0300ish and my bed is calling!

I have made a full write up of how I managed to successfully import my externally created .wav files into the CK for use with my actor. The write up does not show how to change the actor (NPC) 'idle' chat - this is another challenge for me - but it may be of use to someone.

I am considering posting the write up in these forums or having it put up on the CK wiki.

For now though, I must get some sleep.

Good night all and thanks ever so much again.

EDIT: The changing of 'idle' chat is discussed int the Beth tutorial (quest). LOL.

Create a branch
Inside a Branch create a Topic
Inside the topic create infos.
All infos are run - top to bottom - unless a condition on that info stops it being said

That's what I think he/she means ...

There are also some other ways of making dialogue follow on, or using dialogue from elsewhere ... but the above is the Starter-For-Ten (as ever, I THINK!)

Ok
I have no mic and I don't think I can voice act. So I wanted empty files. I recorded empty files (even without mic I got the option and they are recorded, I have actual empty .wav files and corresponding .lip files). When I play it works as I want it to work: I get the NPC reply visible for 15 seconds and then my new answer show, or I have to click the NPC reply away. For my subscribers not so. First this was due to the packer not saving the wav files& lip with it but even now I add them (and increasing the files size from 1.5 --> 65 Mb they still have flash-by NPC responses.

So.. for me it works.. for my subscribers it doesnt'evn though they have the .wav and .lip files.

How to solve this?

Hello all,

I have made a 'tutorial' that shows how I managed to get prerecorded .wav voice acting dialogue into the CK and thought I'd share! (Well, I had a little nudge!).

I'm not used to writing 'how to' or 'tutorial' document but have tried to be concise and ordered.

Please note that I recommend you read the whole document before trying the method! There are a couple of crucial steps that if missed may cause problems!

The file is a .pdf and can be downloaded https://sourceforge.net/projects/ckdialoguehelp/files/.

I am not confident about putting the file onto the CK WIKI just now - if anyone proves that the method works and / or wants to make a CK WIKI page of it then I ask you give me recognition for the work!

Any who, give the download a try and see what ya think!

EDIT: If anyone wants to give feedback on the 'tutorial' please do so here - try to be nice! LOL

Thanks for posting this I appreciate it! I read through your pdf last night and I am going to try this out Monday night. I work a lot over the weekends and don't have much time right now (my weekend is Mon-Tue hehe).

I am so glad to know this method will work even if there is no other way or easier tekneeks. Voice acting is central to my idea for my mod and I am now confident I can get it done and even "professionally"!

Thanks again!

No problem!

Just glad I could offer help and that you where able to follow what I wrote. I used to work weekends (sales person) so I appreciate your having to wait to test the method / technique.

The way I do the voice acting dialogue as shown does seem a bit long winded so to say, but it did / does work well for me.

One good thing about using the .wav files as I do is that you can get your recordings from various sources if need be - depending on the quality you want. I have a microphone set up a few feet from my pc and have noise suppression and echo cancellation on - other than that , my pc is in a standard room! I also have a small mp4 player that has a very good mic and I can use that to get speach from friends if need be.

Another good thing about how I have been adding dialogue is that I can edit the .wav files in Audacity to clean them up or crop them etc. This really helps get a better sound.

I still have not had time to work out 'incidental speach' for my characters - the things they say randomly - and it is odd to have voice acting for npc > player dialogue but 'standard' (race / type) speach for the incidental stuff. I suspect that if you do not give your character a voice type, the incidental stuff will not be heard and that would be a temporary fix! I am writing this from memory though as I have not tackled dialogue for a while. A more permanent fix would be to make a voice acted file for incidental speach - a .bsa? I just have not had time to look closer at that yet - if / when I do I will update the .pdf.

If you (or any of you using the .pdf) have any problems with using the method / techique I describe, please mention them here (try to be clear) and I will, time permitting, see if there is something I can do to help.