Did Fallout 4 dumb down its RPG?

Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:12 pm

Yes. You said it yourself it comes alive

There evidence that support reprogramming synths might not be as easy as you think. Glory's brain dead friend was reprogrammed many times and nothing changed.

Also isn't it possible to brainwash humans?

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Ezekiel Macallister
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:42 pm

It's true Fallout 4 includes fewer cackling villainous evil choices like blowing up Megaton or contaminating the purifier, but since one of the largest complaints about Fallout 3 were the starkly black and white moral choices, and the lack of any real character motivation to even do a lot of those evil things, I'm not really going to blame Bethesda for emphasizing moral ambiguity this time. Plus, I think it makes it more interesting from a storytelling standpoint when there's not an unambiguously evil antagonist like the Enclave or the Legion.

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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:34 pm

Of course its possible to brainwash humans but to get rid of memories you have to go through very painful stuff and that doesn't work the majority of the time. With a synth all you have to do is reprogam it and it'll believe anything else. Why you think Synths fear that in the Institute?

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Raymond J. Ramirez
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:58 pm

Try it from another angle. What would you say if the technology to reprogram humans came about?

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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:00 am

I like that they added more moral ambiguity as well, but flat out reducing the amount of cackling evil options in the game is also a bad thing.

Well put :)

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john page
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:44 am

I agree with this. I also think the best villains in fiction are the ones thinking they are doing the right thing ...

... which is why those three factions are gray.

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Laura-Lee Gerwing
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:12 pm

I know they are. Like I said, that's one of the good things Bethesda did in Fallout 4.....

Sorry, I may be misunderstanding you :(

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Chris Guerin
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:27 pm

But it won't.

We don't even have clue how we dream and what defines us as a person.

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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:27 pm

To bad the Minute Men weren't like the NCR and had some corruption. I wish you couldn't become general. That faction would be so much better.

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Trent Theriot
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:04 pm

Then how can you be sure Syths arn't people?

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Becky Cox
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:44 am

Having more quests instead of an endless barrage of boring radiant quests would help as well.

How is this thread not locked?

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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:17 am

Because we made technology. Every code can be trace. Their personality can be changed even if they don't want it too. That's why.

Look at Microsoft AI bot on twitter they had. All the trolls were making it say the craziest stuff but when Microsoft tweek its coded it went back to saying positive stuff and changing its whole self.

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aisha jamil
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:11 pm

I also got a question.

Why do posts in here get locked when reached 200? Is it to save up on data space for servers?

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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:26 am

obsidian did a good job with the NV main quest as far as the writing and structuring goes but because of the limited time they had the actual world itself was lacking, CL hangs out in tents, there were very few towns in the game, not a lot of areas with human/faction enemies,, CL should of been in a lot of towns battling it out not just nipton, attacking towns and settlements,and the factions didn't come into conflict with each other, they each stayed in their own area, the map was too empty, there needed to be more buildings, towns, small settlements, more power stations, communication outposts etc, things for the factions to take over and have conflict with, places for combat and tactical battles, the game really didn't have any battles except at the end, in fallout 3 there were epic quests, fighting your way to sarah lyons at GNR plaza, waters of life, getting the geck and getting kidnapped by the enclave and escaping raven rock, to me the story in fallout 3 was better as far as the battles, the suspense, the action, it had good elements of a story, it was fun, NV needed more on the map so the factions could come into play more, battling each other, more suspense and action, so the story was written well in NV but it wasn't superior to anything, everything was focused the last battle, so the journey wasn't really emphasied mainly the ending was. fallout 3 and 4 are more about the journey, like a road trip, you want the journey interesting too not just the ending.

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Samantha Pattison
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:48 pm

Uh, mods......where you at?

Possibly, I'm not really sure.

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cheryl wright
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:07 am

I voted no because RPG's has more than one meaning and there's definitely Many variations as well. Bethesda just wants to focus on a different style which is still acceptable.

That's subjective and Bethesda would disagree with your beliefs.

Witcher 3 was one of the worst witchers in the past 7 years. Stability was awful, required 18GB's of patches, content was cut from the game and given back for free because of this fact giving people a false sense that they were giving free stuff away so people could kiss them up.

As great as Mass Effect was, the game shifted from a true RPG to a shooter after the first game. Unlike Fallout which has always been a shooter with RPG elements like dialogs, multiple choices, factions....etc.

I also prefer voice protagonists because I feel we're at a point at modern gaming where every character should be voiced. It's not the 1990's anymore, we're close to 2020 and people still want silent PC's? Wow.

Because New Vegas is the most recent Fallout outside of 4 and was made by the remnants of Black Isles Studio who created Fallout 1 and 2. So there's always going to be comparisons regardless of whether people want there to be.

As a few others the mainquest of new vegas was horrendous. I felt I was given no option but to take part in a silly political scheme because NCR, Caesar knew they couldn't properly win on their own and needed a walking flesh tank know as the courier who survived being shot in the head and laid waste to everything before them locating that same man. But Benny was the only interesting person on the Main Quest. The style of the character, how he dressed and talk resembled Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel who is concerned as the father of Las Vegas. But no they decided that it was a great idea to kill the only cool person in the game that made the MQ great, to substitute it with 3 factions; One power hungry CEO, one trying to be the hero and bring back old government and another setting human society back to 1000's of years where women were merely objects and slaves. And the only option left was a robot called Yes Man who was tacked on because Benny fate. Like what an amazing story. Fallout 4 has it's faults no doubt but it's main quest as was fallout 3's far superior in that sense, not so much choices and using skills or specials as speech checks but the plot was just far more interesting.

1. What's wrong with Equipment Modification? This was a big improvement on the reloading bench and modding of fallout new vegas. Bethesda saw people like that aspect and took it to the next level. So why complain about that?

2. You talk like Game mods is a bad thing? Console mods is something brand new and you're bringing it up as a negative? Wow

3. Automatron = / = Assaultron though I get why you might be confused, and well wasteland workshop just improves on the basic function of the workshop. Bethesda did state that the workshop system was actually not even fully fleshed out yet as it was a late addition into the game.

Complaining about DLC that actually fleshes out a mechanic in the game is crazy right? Why bother adding anything at all i mean it's not like you're grateful for having the dlc.

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gary lee
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:50 pm

And humans can also be programmed and personalities changed too overtime. The methods may be different the the results are the same, I guess humans aren't real people. They're Organic Machines. And know what's ironic about that? We are Organic Machines. :P

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Epul Kedah
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:40 am

Are the mods all asleep or something, or do they lock it down after 8 threads instead of 7?

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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:33 am

I disagree, but you already know that :P

I've always found faction politics infinitely more interesting than the whole find the lost family member plot.

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Brandon Bernardi
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:29 am

Yeesh. This thread actually made 200 posts? Guess the bridge was well baited and many a billy goat died last night.

As to Fallout's RPG mechanics, they are perfectly fine. Any RPG shortcomings as defined by some archaic standards of RPGness purity are not due to mechanical shortcomings, but rather quest construction. While people pan the voiced protagonist and lack of 'skill checks', that isn't a failure of the mechanics. Nothing would have prevented Bethesda from including that sort of thing if they wanted to. The problem with the dialogue was entirely on the quest construction side, with the four dialogue options all being variations of 'yes, I'll do the quest' differentiated only by whether it pleased or disappointed your companion. I am NOT going to defend the game's dialogue options.

There is nothing in the mechanics that would have prevented the inclusion of such checks. The way Bethesda fills their world with content is the culprit in this case, not the shortcomings of the mechanics.

If Fallout 4 doesn't meet some archaic standard of what constitutes an RPG among those stuck in the '90s, then neither it nor any other game needs to. What it does it does well and it's plenty RPG for me. Trying to say it isn't an RPG is akin to saying that a refrigerator isn't really an ice box because it doesn't use big blocks of ice as the mechanic for keeping stuff cool. This might be technically true, but the reality is that the refrigerator doesn't have to be an ice box in the traditional sense to accomplish it's mission.

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michael flanigan
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:24 pm

I don't think anyone has really said it isn't an RPG to my knowledge. The question was to whether or not Fallout 4 is a shallow RPG which as you can see the community in this particular forum seems to be split on.

Also, seriously mods where the heck are you guys?

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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:57 pm

The synths are like Cmdr. Data. I would consider him sentient.

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Victoria Bartel
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:42 pm

I have good reason to believe Obsidian will be doing another Fallout title - Of course, I could be wrong....

I think it's plausible though. They have expressed interest in it and expressed potential settings.
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Post » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:02 pm

I hope so, that way both parties can will be satisfied.

Oh who am I kidding, nobody is ever satisfied :P

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Eibe Novy
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Post » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:07 am

I can see why they might want to, but I don't see why Bethesda would want them to. The last thing Bethesda needs is to create among the lowest common denominator of the Fallout fanbase the impression that a third party studio is the one that makes the 'real' Fallout games. Besides, Bethesda has opened up a second studio in Canada and now can work on two concurrent projects. Their need to do any farming out of game development has probably vanished.

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