I must have missed that part.

but this time around robes increase magicka regeneration as a base feature.



all this is, a matter of preference. however, in my opnionion, roleplaying mages is alot more exciting when you're brewing up potions or enchanting gear. Also enchanting wasn't even a skill in oblivion, now both systems have been more completely developed and add to the feeling playing a mage will have. as for shouts, they're magical abilities, doesnt matter how you get them, weather you're speaking an ancient language or not, it's still magic. the effects it will add to the repetoire of any class will be great, but for a mage especially it will be perfect for roleplaying.



i never said cooking was mage specific, just that it makes it more fun to play as a mage. I will get alot of enjoyment out of cooking up food and creating potions from them.



i wont' deny the lack of spellmaking is sad, but i think the experience is more than making up for it, and if you don't think dual casting and the other perks make your mage more personal, then i guess you're going to not even bother using perks right? why develop them into something unique? every perk, every ability, every time i do something that another player doesn't have to is the DEFINITION of a personal experience.



i am very, very happpy to say that i dissagree with you on this point. i would much rather have visually impressive spells than the bland, generic, and ever repeated oblivion effects. i find the more visually stimulating the visuals of the game the more drawn into the world i am. Wow, if you think that the spell casting in oblivion is more exciting than skyrimsi can't even try and talk you out of it. we're so far off eahothers viewpoint that we'll just have to agree to disagree.


It seems to me like your only gripe is that spellmaking is gone. Yes, I will wish it was still in the game. However, that will not stop me from appreciating everything that is in the game, and realizing that more work has been put into mages and that the entire class has been improved upon.

I think the shouting is appropriate here, as I am telling you that DRAGON SHOUTS ARE NOT MAGIC

not magic in that they require mana to cast in game, but in fact of theory it is a form of magic in that the definition of magic from merriam webster is: an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source.

dragon shouts are a form of magic, just not one everybody can use like the normal magic system.

Its a game. Learn to play the game. Magic doesn't exist in real life. Hence any definition from real life is invalid.

Dragon shouts are not affected by skills. They are not affected by magicka. They come from Dragon Souls. While their effects are magical, they are not magic themselves, as they don't come from any of the established schools of magic. .

you should realize how many times using a language or special words and souls have been used throughout the entire fantasy genre as a form of magic. Th'uum, the way of the voice, harnesses the words of the dragon language, and powered by the souls of the dragons creates it's own, unique, class of magic used in Skyrim. You're right, it is not traditional magic in the form that has been done in every Elder Scrolls game, but it is still a form of magic nonetheless. If my mage, or another persons for that matter, wants to use dragon shouts as an augmented form of magic to compliment traditional magic styles it is completely up to the player. As Todd Howard likes to say "go where you want, do what you want".

The point I was trying to make originally was merely that the added effects of the magical dragon shouts will improve upon the already great powers mage roles have. 20 or so Dragon shout spells more than covers the few spells that have been removed from the game.



As more of a response to the OP, I've read chameleon is out, but have heard nothing of command being removed. Invisibility is still in.

I saw some previews in some magazines in which the previewer guy started with dual hand attacks and the like, and ended up loving Skyrim magic system, and turned into a permanent one hand or full fledged spell caster.

I see this as a good omen for the magic system in Skyrim.

I for sure want to try it once and see for myself if I like it.

I'm not sure why people think magic is going to be underpowered, ESPECIALLY illusion. Take a look at the perk tree for Illusion...it looks incredibly strong. The ability to frenzy or calm or fear any type of NPC is very powerful. An Illusionist with skill in conjuration looks to be very deadly.

Magic easily looks to be the most powerful style, yet again.

Most play throughs ive seen over this week people of any build end up switching to magic since its so good.

Magic seems to have become more powerful in terms of combat prowess, sure, but at the same time it looks like it has lost some of it's non-combat utility. The Water Walking and Open effects appear to have been removed, which kind of svcks.

Honestly I wish they would go the other way, they could nerf the combat power all they want, as long as they improve the versatility out of combat.

Once again then, this is the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Magical_Effects wiki magic effects page. They were given game books and information by Bethesda, though exactly what is not clear. Their pages on skill perks were up and more complete than that far too frequently linked article that didn't even mention them all, and it was up before it. Note the presence under illusion of command, chameleon, invisibility, and silence, not to mention paralyze in alteration's school.

It's strange, I always just sort of assumed that the UESP wiki was a widely known gold mine of information on all things Elder Scrolls. Seems to be left out a lot in places where other sources get linked, yet they often know as much if not more.

we gained a spell called Muffle. It lets you walk more silently for 100 seconds. They have added new spells but taken away some more game breaking ones. I will miss all of them but I see why

That list has Chameleon under Illusion - don't we have confirmation that Chameleon is out?

Well, it's supposed to be 85+ spell effects with over 300 different spells in total, so I assumed that they had to have added some new effects in order to reach those kind of numbers. Assuming that information is correct of course.

I honestly don't know if it's possible to make it any clearer, but basically, I take their "Bethesda granted information" as confirmation that they are all IN the game.

Edit: I found the version of their talk page that I seen that response on concerning what Bethesda "gave them". It seems to have been archived and is no longer on the current talk page. This is the quote from one of their main editors responding to people talking about the leaked intro.

"If every other gaming website is covering the story there's no need for us to do so.
Look, Bethesda have been very generous with what they let us host. We have all the in-game books, two editions of the Pocket Guide to the Empire and loads more data that they could get taken down instantly if they wanted to. In this case, they took down the first YouTube copies of that video within minutes of the release, so it's pretty clear they're pissed at this leak. Unless other admins disagree, I'm simply not going to allow links to that video here because at worst it could have negative consequences for the site, and at best it's downright impolite given how nice Bethesda have been to us in the past." rpeh ?T?C?E? 18:06, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Don't know what constitutes "all the in-game books", but I'm willing to trust a list of perks, or spells, or any information taken directly from them over speculation and induction.

I don't care how cool or useful a standing stone power appears. "Once a day" powers svck, period.

agreed, once a day powers aren't fun to play with. more often than not i forget i even have them. THough i did enjoy hunting down all the doomstones in oblivion. the spells are powerful as heck.

Correct!

That is why hopefullt some modder will change them into a cool-downer power.

Maybe yours truly, when I get to it, from the more pressing matters, like the actual character creation and progression.

I might even integrate those things into a bundle with optional parts.

Not something I agree with, personally. What you don't find "cool" is irrelevant when it comes to game balance. Whether certain powers should be once a day....now that's debatable.

Could we get a link about the whole 300 different spells thing. I've heard/read people talking about it but I've never seen an actual link.

Yeah thats because its not true. They never said it.

Its 85 spells. Actually someone with the Prima Guide posted he counted only 79.

The 300 spells thing is a myth of obscure origins Im afraid. ALOT of spell effects are gone...

Modders save us.

wo wo wo wo.. back up, when did we find out about paralysis being gone ( i was planing to make a mage that FOCUSED on illusion... this is NOT looking good people. i need invisibility... and... and paralis.. and.. command... )

Invisibility is still in. But as for command...

Mods.

this is the list Ceda just posted in his new topic on he / she having the guide. all credit goes to Ceda
Illusion spells:
Courage
Clarivoyance
Fury
Calm
Fear
Muffle
Frenzy
Rally
Invisibility
Pacify
Rout
Call to arms
Harmony
Hysteria
Mayhem

Destruction:
Flames
Frostbite
Sparks
Fire rune
Ice spike
First rune
Lightning bolt
Lightning rune
Chain lightning
Fireball
Flame cloak
Frost cloak
Ice storm
Lightning cloak
Icy spear
Firebolt (credit Jh71595)
Incinerate
Thunderbolt
Wall of flames
Wall of frost
Wall of storms
Blizzard
Fire storm
Lightning storm
Arniels convection
Vampirec drain

Conjuration:
Bound sword
Conjure familiar
Raise zombie
Bound battleaxe
Conjure flame atronach
Reanimate corpse
Soul trap
Banish deadra
Bound bow
Conjure frost atronach
Revenant
Command deadra
Conjure demora lord
Conjure storm storm atronach
Dread zombie expel deadra
Dead thrall
Flame thrall
Frost thrall
Storm thrall
Flaming familiar
Summon Arniels shade
Summon unbound demora

Alteration: (Credit to EternalDarkness)

candlelight
oakflesh (Improves caster`s armor rating 40 points for 60 seconds)
magelight
stonelfesh
Detect life (detect animal life)
ironflesh
telekinesis (levitate objects)
waterbreathing (breathe underwater)
Detect dead
ebonyflesh
paralyze (stun an enemy so they can't move)
dragonhide
mass paralysis
equilbrium
transmute