In the thread about losing the Open spells from Alteration, there were also some school spells lists shown and some discussions about other spells that im curious about.

The Conjuration list left out Command spells, other than Command Dremora / Dremora Lord. Since that spell is in Conjuration, that says to me that Command spells are in Conjuration. Did we really lose Command Animal / Humanoid spells? Or is that list inaccurate?

Also I heard someone say we lost Chameleon. Is this true? And did we lose Invisibility with that as well?

Hopefully this isn't true, because I was planning on using all those types of spells on my character.

However, if it is true, I do believe it will help me finally decide on what character I wanna play.

I hope it isn't but haven't found them in game.

yes .. they have said their is only 80 Spells.

Dmg Hp is gone
Chameleon is gone as a spell , but their is a shout for it.
All weakness are gone (weakness to fire,ice, ect)
and alot more .. with only 80 spell in game.
Also.. no more making spells.

I don't like how we lost lots of magic choices love the shouts and increased magic strength though.

yes but we gained more than we lost, we now have 85 instead of 80

I think command spells fall under illusion, command dmeora is under conjuration due to its target but the general command spell is illusion. As for chameleon, who knows I think it should be in just don't allow it to stack.

What does illusion even have now? The two strongest spells(paralysis and chameleon) are unfortunately gone. Do they get a new super effect? Is illusion really worth it this time around?

Judging by the perk list, Illusion includes Calm, Fear, and Frenzy spells.

Also note, 4 perks invested in the tree is enough to get Quiet Casting for all magic schools.

Noone really knows yet.

I think the confirmed ones are Invisibility, Rage, Fear, Command, NightEye, Clairvoyance, and Calm.

Not according to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Magical_Effects wiki site. Flip to the spell effects page's talk tab though and admittedly their most recent comments are from October 8. But that just means nobody had a new comment for the talk page, they make changes to their main page content within days of finding out new information. I've wondered before where they found sources for other things, and in one examination of a talk page there where they were talking about why not to link to any leaked things, it was mentioned that Bethesda has been very good to them and that they have "all the books". That implied to me that their source was official documents listing the things they put on the page for them straight from Bethesda. Not hard to buy since they are known and widely used site for knowledge of their games.

I am hoping theirs is a direct enough source to trust in listing command, chameleon, invisibility, and silence as being under the school of illusion in Skyrim. Might I submit that perhaps they decided some of the effects are so strong that those spells needed to be very obscure and hard to acquire (without prior knowledge, guide listing where and how, etc) and that the "aledgedly leaked footage of playtime" (heh, lawyer language for that win) is of people who have yet to find them? Or do a quest with this super powerful spell as a reward? I mean the guide description released had the editor listing 350 individual locations?!?! Let's just pretend for the sake of argument that there will be new things getting discovered in this game for quite some time.

Of course, if they refer to the game guide, then we will actually get an "official listing" in about two days. I'm going to keep the faith that this is one of those books they are making their list from and keep my fingers crossed.

Edit: And some may be available in other forms, since that is a listing of magical effects, not spells specifically, but they have a seperate link for alchemy effects, so maybe potions?

Removing paralysis was an interesting choice. I mean removing chameleon was kinda lame but I rarely used it. But paralysis? Honestly, with no spellmaking I won't miss the weakness spells. But man, oh man. I feel like we're losing a LOT more than we're gaining, as regards magic.

According to the UESP Wiki and a thread here, Paralyze is in Alteration now.

Agreed. The spells "sound" like they will look a lot cooler and will actually be effective in combat but it is sad to see absolutely no way to tweak any of the spells.

Now we have standing stones that give us the power to paralyze foes and get invisible, and do not forget the shouts and skill perks that give us these powers as well.

And it makes magic users even weaker. Why get a fireball spell if you can breathe fire? It's kind of worrying for mages, to be honest.

The fireball doesn't have a cooldown.

Where do we have confirmation of Invisibility? Is there a (legit) link?

We are losing too much. It's not gonna go over well to lose this many Mage types and the ability to make spells as well.

This is my feeling to, appears that mages has had a really serious nerf and that mages will be quite boring compared to Morrowind / Oblivion.

I disagree, i think mages are going to be the best iteration of any of the series. here's why: all the new visual effects are going to make playing as a mage alot more exciting. Robes will actually benefit the user to wear, making them a viable option. dual casting of spells, and spell perks in general allow us to personalize our mage to our playstyle more than in previous games. Shouts will give us additional powers on top of the standard spells to make casting even better. enchanting and alchemy and cooking being more fleshed out will give added depth to magecraft. staves will be more useful than in previous games.

And hopefully, just hopefully, utility schools won't svck before 50 skill.

The School of Illusion involves manipulating the mind of the enemy. This skill makes it easier to cast spells like Fear, Charm, and Invisiblitily.

Description near the skill.

... I don't even know where you got some of that. >.< first of all we could enchant robes in all the elder scrolls, which did a lot for mages, thieves ect. Enchanting and alchemy, they are done at crafting tables and are just as much detailed as previous games, just maybe a new way to lvl it or having to break down things to make enchants, (kinda stupid IMO, if I have a magic effect I should know how to channel it, depending on my enchant level). Shouts are not part of *pure* mages, and I personally think shouts are kinda lame lol. Since when is cooling only Mage specific o.O when all cooking does is make cooked food which heals more, you could make cooked for alchemy, but I do not think that is the case, since alchemy takes raw ingredients and mixes them together. Dual casting is good, but does not make your Mage more personal, it would've been better to have spell making with dual casting, but oh well they must cut a lot of things each new game. Looks of spells are not a reason to say it makes it more exciting, I rather have bland fireballs and magic spheres than, a flamethrower or icethrower, which makes them look like gun type weapons from your hand or something... Spellmaking just adds more class specific spells for me, or ones that make sense with my character, heck I used spell making to make "abilities" and I acted like they where abilities not spells. But oh well right?... Also I am not trying to be a jerk, just playing devil's advocate and saying my opinion at ze sametime.

illusion seems to be a better partner with conjuration this time around...casting frenzy and sending your zombies in to mix up the party while shooting summoned arrows from a far and tap souls while doing so....

just wondering about the silent casting, whats so good about that? i assume if you cast not silently enemeis will hear you while sneaking around? on the other hand what spells do you want to cast while sneaking up on an enemy?

Well you obliviously use it as an opening move to start the fight, spells are ranged so if your not using a bow for a ranged sneak attack and cant get a melee of without being seen, a "sneaky spell" may just be the way to go. for mages chosing a spell over blade & bow should be normal to