Did the Legion pick the wrong Region to be Besiegin'?

Post » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:50 am

Caesar came from NCR (The Followers) and wants NCR for its military potential. He built up the Legion so he can invade NCR.

"Area not chaotic enough." I am glad New Vegas returned to progress and confrontation "War, war never changes." Having total chaos after two hundred years anywhere is just stupid. People rebuild, people from armies for protection. People need resources so they trade and build an economy. People don't always get along yet they still need resources, which leds to "War, War never changes."
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Laura Shipley
 
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Post » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:21 am

And therein lies the rub. Caeser's presence in the Mojave has no noble goals. He wants a castle, a big shiny one with high walls, so that he feels important.

He's more concerned with attacking the NCR in a literal power grab (Hoover Dam) than his proposed goals of forced civility upon the dissolute masses.

And the best part is, both goals are doomed to failure. Even if you play a CL game, and help them win every battle, Legate Lanius himself says that the Legion forces are much better suited to taking positions rather than holding them. The only places CL holds are barren desert with no appreciable value. The CL capital is Flagstaff. And with apologies to anyone who lives in Flagstaff currently, it's not exactly prime real estate. (I'm guessing the trees didn't survive the war)

In the end, the truth is simple: the guy who claims to be the son of a god, has a big ego. Who'd have guessed. And his ego has driven him towards this futile goal, in hopes of a memorable swan song.

Arizona is the main base of the Legion
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Leilene Nessel
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:04 pm

Oliver is incompetent. He got his post through nepotism. Instead of harassing the Legion with skirmishes, he sits at the dam with his thumbs up his butt. He leaves everywhere else woefully under-defended, he plans to use the Rangers in a manner which they are ill-suited, and IIRC, it was not Oliver who had the "Blow Up Boulder City", but Chief Hanlon, Which is why Oliver has an inferiority complex towards Hanlon; He and his Rangers got all the glory in the first DamWar.

Boone says it: Hsu would have those General's Stars if Oliver didn't know the President.



Hsu would look good in Oliver's attire.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:58 am

The Legion did originated from that setting. Based on the stories you here from Raul and many Legionaries, Arizona was one of the worst places in the entire postwar world, it was so lawless to the degree that you can even trade with the other town just a few miles up the road. Under Caesar's laws, there are hardly any raiders left in Legion territory anymore.

Their war against the NCR and Mr. House isn't because they are going to bring law and order to them like they did with the tribes at Arizona, but because Caesar want to use it as an example to show that his ideology is better then that of the NCR's.
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Melanie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:02 am

And therein lies the rub. Caeser's presence in the Mojave has no noble goals. He wants a castle, a big shiny one with high walls, so that he feels important.


No. "The rub" is that once he has that castle, the Legion has its Rome, its major metropolis that will turn them from a barbarian horde into a true Roman empire. That's the theory, anyway.

And Lanius? He's a warrior and a general, not a king. Obviously the Legion would be bad at settling down with him in charge.

Arizona is the main base of the Legion


And Flagstaff is a city in Arizona, and the Legion's capital.
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SHAWNNA-KAY
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:55 pm

The Legion did originated from that setting. Based on the stories you here from Raul and many Legionaries, Arizona was one of the worst places in the entire postwar world, it was so lawless to the degree that you can even trade with the other town just a few miles up the road. Under Caesar's laws, there are hardly any raiders left in Legion territory anymore.

Their war against the NCR and Mr. House isn't because they are going to bring law and order to them like they did with the tribes at Arizona, but because Caesar want to use it as an example to show that his ideology is better then that of the NCR's.

Show an example to who?
When the NCR falls there will not be a force to reckon with as the master, the enclave, the BoS, and many others have fallen and it states as someone said before the NCR is the biggest faction in the wasteland that we know of and since they have been up and down the west coast clearing out tribes and lawless peoples so they would in time run out if people to conquer and then what?

exactly the legion doesnt have the order of the other factions and is rather unstable
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:15 am

Show an example to who?
When the NCR falls there will not be a force to reckon with as the master, the enclave, the BoS, and many others have fallen and it states as someone said before the NCR is the biggest faction in the wasteland that we know of and since they have been up and down the west coast clearing out tribes and lawless peoples so they would in time run out if people to conquer and then what?

exactly the legion doesnt have the order of the other factions and is rather unstable


Erm, so?

Since when have things like that mattered to an egomaniacal conquering dictator type? Many of the great empires of history were fairly short-lived and ultimately just senseless bouts of mass-murder committed primarily to please the ego of the guy in charge. And when that fellow died, they often petered out in short order. NV's Caesar fills that bill perfectly.
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Jeffrey Lawson
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:22 pm

"Civilization begins with order, grows with liberty, and dies with chaos." - Will Durant

The Legion are the first step. Order. They would most certainly bring order to an anarchic land, and from there, eventually a new, better society would arise, whether through reform of the old, brutal and tyranic Legion regime, or from a violent revolution against the harsh leadership of Caesar.

However, you're right. The Mojave is the wrong place for the Legion. There is already a large degree of order, and even some liberty starting to shine through. Ceasar taking control in this region would be a regression. In other parts of the world however, areas similar to the Capital Wasteland, Legion control would be a step in the right direction.
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Jonathan Montero
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:13 pm

they shoulda moved to england and done ther buisiness there.a few towns could do with wiping out over here
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Amy Siebenhaar
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:28 pm

It is not a frontal assault. Sending your troops up the intake tunnels and catching the defenders unware. IS not in any universe a frontal assault. If you can sneak hundreds of soldiers inside the best fortified location in 500 miles you exploit that weakness before they close it up. So when the dust settles that fortification is yours.

He only sends some of his troops that way, the bulk of them assault the top of the dam in an attempt to reach the towers and get inside. Even with the flanking maneuver via the intake pipes the Legion still takes heavy casualties during the battle that could be entirely avoided by drawing the NCR forces away from there.

There is a distressing lack of information of what Caesar was thinking when he drew up his battle plans, which is kind of annoying because it would be interesting to know why he's not confident enough in using the pipes to send his entire force that way. If he had the dam battle would be no contest, as all those NCR troops up top would have had nothing to shoot at and the towers would be blocked at the bottom by Legion squads, preventing them from reinforcing the interior defenders.

That the NCR fails to see the potential risk in leaving those pipes open if you side with the Legion is kind of weak IMO, since any officer worth his or her salt would check for things like that first when fortifying any given location. Then again, I am of the opinion that General Oliver's failings are overplayed for the PC's benefit and tend to assume that he'd actually see this particular maneuver coming, so take that as you will.

If one sides with the Legion and hangs back during the assault (I did this myself to see what happened), the frontal attack force gets absolutely slaughtered by NCR Veteran snipers until the triggered event where the surprise attack force shows up and swarms the deck (this happens once the PC reaches tower #3), at which point what's left of the frontal assault troops are able to close to melee range as the snipers turn their attention to the new set of targets. These get shot up in turn, however there are enough of them to enable the near-complete overrun of the NCR positions. Some of them bring heavy rifles of their own and take out the NCR snipers, which helps quite a bit.

If one abandons the topside assault force and heads into the dam, the battles there are actually pretty even although the Legion generally wins as they are much better at CQC. If the NCR troops had Riot Guns instead of Sawed-Offs, however, things would be ugly, and the Vets wielding Sequoias take a pretty good toll of Legion troops. Fortunately for the Legion the latter are relatively few in number and get overrun in short order.

Watching the interior fights is what got me wondering why Caesar didn't go all-out with the sneaky plan in the first place, as it's much more favorable in terms of casualties sustained. The first thing that jumps to mind is this was done so that Lanius could do his thing and lead the assault, but then he passes the buck to you which goes back to 'this is as it is so that the PC might handle it', which gets pretty stale by that point IMO.
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Stat Wrecker
 
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