Dragons should use more Shouts. : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:47 am

Great idea! I completely agree. :smile:

Here's to hoping someone like Gstaff or vsions chimes in to say the same thing. :foodndrink:

yeah considering they're supposedly one of the most dangerous beings on Nirn, they're ridiculously weak.
case in point, 5 guards from whiterun took down a dragon while I just watched and claimed the glory.

Posts like this upset me and are the reason for this topic

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:20 am

Dragons do need to use more shouts, even the Fire and Frost breath arn't like what the PC uses.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:36 pm

The Dragonborn is supposed to be the only person who can stop the dragons... It is a sad day when a Bear can take down a dragon..............

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:53 pm

This is sorely needed. Dragons quickly become more of a nuisance than a legitimate threat.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:20 pm

The Dragonborn is supposed to be the only person who can stop the dragons... It is a sad day when a Bear can take down a dragon..............

Aye indeed.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:23 pm

This is sorely needed. Dragons quickly become more of a nuisance than a legitimate threat.

I don't recall them ever being a threat. You can simply shout Storm Call and walk away unscathed, or sit around using Healing Hands (if necessary) while Lydia does all the work.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:36 am

I agree... they are too easy as "Dragons"!!

to kill one my dunmer archer lvl. 35 just needs:
dragon --> 20-30 sec
blood dragon --> 30-40 sec
frost dragon --> almost 1 min

they should be definitely stronger :-(

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:17 pm

I agree... they are too easy as "Dragons"!!

to kill one my dunmer archer lvl. 35 just needs:
dragon --> 20-30 sec
blood dragon --> 30-40 sec
frost dragon --> almost 1 min

they should be definitely stronger :-(

That's another problem, the amount of time it takes should be much longer, and this shouldn't be remedied with just increased health. We were told dragons would be the boss battles of the game. What video game boss could you defeat in under a minute consistently even after they got more and more difficult?

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:52 am

Also, if they do this, I think the frequency of dragons in the wild should be lowered a little. You don't fight a boss every day, I'd like it to feel special. (Not literally everyday, Im sure most people do)

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:38 pm

I think elder and ancient can use unrelenting force.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:30 pm

One of my favorite mods has been and probably always will be Diverse Dragons. Not only do they use more shouts, each dragon is given a special ability or quirk that makes fighting them a joy - and terrifying as ****.

I remember fighting the first dragon at the Western Watchtower, whittling his health down with arrows until he landed. All of a sudden he summoned 3 fire atronachs and cast a modified version of the master fire destruction spell.

Needless to say, I was burned to a very fine crispy Adventurer a'flambe!

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:02 am

Also, if they do this, I think the frequency of dragons in the wild should be lowered a little. You don't fight a boss every day, I'd like it to feel special. (Not literally everyday, Im sure most people do)

Agreed.

One of my favorite mods has been and probably always will be Diverse Dragons. Not only do they use more shouts, each dragon is given a special ability or quirk that makes fighting them a joy - and terrifying as ****.

I remember fighting the first dragon at the Western Watchtower, whittling his health down with arrows until he landed. All of a sudden he summoned 3 fire atronachs and cast a modified version of the master fire destruction spell.

Needless to say, I was burned to a very fine crispy Adventurer a'flambe!

Sounds like your playing on the PC with a mod, were talking about vanilla Skyrim.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:26 am

I agree wholeheartedly with this, but the only problem is the recharge time for shouts. If the dragon can keep pounding on me with powerful shouts, why can't I do the same. I feel that most of the powerful shouts aren't even worth using since the recharge time is so long. If they somehow tweaked this, or let us have an enchant like the Amulet Of Talos has, then this would be a little more viable.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:29 am

I agree wholeheartedly with this, but the only problem is the recharge time for shouts. If the dragon can keep pounding on me with powerful shouts, why can't I do the same. I feel that most of the powerful shouts aren't even worth using since the recharge time is so long. If they somehow tweaked this, or let us have an enchant like the Amulet Of Talos has, then this would be a little more viable.

Also agreed, i only use Become Ethereal, but that's only if im jumping down mountains............ Also i hate that half of the shouts are either Perks or Spells already in the game.... -_-

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:47 am

Also agreed, i only use Become Ethereal, but that's only if im jumping down mountains............ Also i hate that half of the shouts are either Perks or Spells already in the game.... -_-

Exactly. I could see how this would be favorable for non-mages, but even then half of the shouts kind of just, well, svck.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:02 pm

Sounds like your playing on the PC with a mod, were talking about vanilla Skyrim.

Yes, I am. However, I agree with you. It would be very nice in the vanilla dragons had some variety to their attacks. I wouldn't mind seeing more unique, dragon-only shouts. How about one where they cause a minor earthquake that staggers/knocks down everything in a certain range?

I started playing Skyrim on the Xbox, and the very first thing I wanted to do after learning a few shouts was to participate in a... lively discussion with a dragon, no weapons or useless auxiliary magic getting in the way. I was deeply disappointed by the long cool down times of the shouts. I almost wish it was done in a ME2 kind of way, where each shout has a cooldown. You can use Unrelenting Force and Fire Breath right in a row, but can't use either again until their individual cooldown timers were up.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:52 am

I agree wholeheartedly with this, but the only problem is the recharge time for shouts. If the dragon can keep pounding on me with powerful shouts, why can't I do the same. I feel that most of the powerful shouts aren't even worth using since the recharge time is so long. If they somehow tweaked this, or let us have an enchant like the Amulet Of Talos has, then this would be a little more viable.

I almost wish it was done in a ME2 kind of way, where each shout has a cooldown. You can use Unrelenting Force and Fire Breath right in a row, but can't use either again until their individual cooldown timers were up.

There's the solution. Keep each shout with the same cooldown, but make each cooldown an individual one. Maybe keep the animation on the compass for as long as a shout in cooldown is equipped.

There really is no reason for this solution not to be implemented. It's especially bothersome that everyone else who can shout--Greybeards, Dragur and dragons--can do so consistently while the very Dragonborn, who has natural mastery of the Thu'um, cannot. Doing this would also make shouts a viable form of combat. Obviously, that would synergize well with more dragons shouting; battles between dragons and the Dragonborn would be as unique as the lore tells us and as was promised.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:32 pm

I don't think that cools own system would work. You could just favorite all your shouts and hit enemies with a barrage of 15 or so offensive shouts. Too OP. It could work well for the dragon's cool downs though.

Also I think a dragon that uses become ethereal should be a Night Dragon, and be black

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:03 am

I don't think that cooldown system would work. You could just favorite all your shouts and hit enemies with a barrage of 15 or so offensive shouts.

There are only twenty shouts, and as it stands, most battles are a matter of choosing which shout to use. Staggering a dragon with Unrelenting Force and then hitting it with Fire or Frost Breath could be effective, yes, but not overpowered. For that matter, it becomes difficult to make effective use of shouts when you have to choose between using Animal Allegiance and, say, Marked for Death. If you could use both successively, you could really be a Thu'um master.

Spoiler

Even Ulfric Stormcloak can use multiple shouts in succession.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Anything that makes dragons more than just a pest is sorely needed.
I mean, I'm pretty sure dragons are supposed to be the main selling point of Skyrim and they're a tad lackluster at the moment.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:42 am

Anything that makes dragons more than just a pest is sorely needed.
I mean, I'm pretty sure dragons are supposed to be the main selling point of Skyrim and they're a tad lackluster at the moment.

It is at once good and bad that so many players feel this way. We shouldn't have a basis for this, but it's good that we're one strong voice. And speaking of strong voices, using shouts would be about the best way to improve dragons in a lore-friendly manner that doesn't fundamentally change their statistics.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:26 am

Currently, all dragons ever (outside of Alduin) use only one shout out of a whopping two possible shouts they could use. What gives?

Before release, dragons in Skyrim were touted as being different from the typical fantasy that we're used to, that they don't just breathe fire or ice (sorry, no quotes/links right now; may edit this post with some). In my Collector's Edition art book (which I don't have at this moment, so again, may edit to quote later), there's a concept piece of Alduin shouting at some soldiers who are sent flying, presumably by using Unrelenting Force. The artist, who is quoted on the page, mentions that he was happy to design a dragon who wasn't simply breathing fire or frost. I'm pretty sure that the "making of" DVD that came with the Collector's Edition contains other developer comments regarding the uniqueness of dragons, but I'll have to watch it again because it's been ages.

The point is that we were promised a unique dragon-slaying experience and that promise was not kept. Instead, we have typical dragons who do nothing but breath fire or frost (the very shouts are called "Fire/Frost Breath") and use melee attacks. The only thing unique about dragons is that the player cannot use the version of the shouts they use. Even games like Monster Hunter and Dungeons & Dragons have more variety (and with dragons who have more combat tactics than just breath weapons and simple melee). The Greybeards themselves tell us that a fight between two dragons is actually a deadly verbal debate (a loading screen and something in the art book say the same thing). What's the debate about, two dragons yelling "Fire Inferno Sun" and "Frost Cold Freeze" at each other? For goodness' sake, Draugr use more shouts than dragons!

Furthermore, dragons actually shouting would change a lot about combat and maybe even force the Dragonborn to combat dragons with shouts. Here's what I'd like to see dragons using:

-Disarm
-Unrelenting Force
-Storm Call (which can be countered by Clear Skies)
-Clear Skies to counter our Storm Call
-Animal Allegiance if there are creatures nearby (countered by Dismay)
-Dismay to counter our followers and to counter Animal Allegiance
-Become Ethereal to recover
-Marked for Death (to be used on both us and our allies)
-Slow Time (countered by Whirlwind Sprint)
-Whirlwind Sprint (used to fly across the sky in a path quickly to dodge magic and arrows)

(One of the shouts I would not have them use is Ice Form for sake of balance, but seeing as how the Greybeards use it, maybe. Up to you, Bethesda)

You decide which kinds of dragons should be using which shouts at different levels. All I want to see is change; I want to see what we were promised.

totally awesome if they did but unrelenting force no , alot of dragon nest are on mountains sooo.... yeah

Slow time , can't work for enemies , if implemented would have to be for everyone and therefore would be no benefit to the enemy
And become ethereal noooo , good idea but faaar too annoying , you know when your playing on master and they never land and keep doing flame breathe fly by's ? imagine how annoying ethereal would be o.0

all the rest are awesome though altough id replace whirlwind with elemental fury as it makes more sense , attack quicker and all that

animal allegiance ? yes ! that would be so awesome , they land next to a mammoth and make him stomp after you

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:01 am

totally awesome if they did but unrelenting force no , alot of dragon nest are on mountains sooo.... yeah :biggrin:

Slow time , can't work for enemies , if implemented would have to be for everyone and therefore would be no benefit to the enemy
And become ethereal noooo , good idea but faaar too annoying , you know when your playing on master and they never land and keep doing flame breathe fly by's ? imagine how annoying ethereal would be o.0

all the rest are awesome though altough id replace whirlwind with elemental fury as it makes more sense , attack quicker and all that

animal allegiance ? yes ! that would be so awesome , they land next to a mammoth and make him stomp after you :biggrin:

I'll edit the OP to include Elemental Fury. I didn't think it'd work well, but it makes sense for them to simply attack faster. And YES, dragons living on mountaintops + Unrelenting Force = a scary boss battle! However, Slow Time should work fine, so I disagree with you there.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:48 pm

Edited the OP.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:57 pm

I agree completely