This is a continuation of the topic about future Enclave DLC in Fallout New Vegas. Well the responses were mixed . Some said that it would be cool . Many said that it was impossible. But I say it is fairly possible . Because the enclave could of had a hidden bunker (like a vault) that was accadently closed permintly and the enclave decided to leave it untill they finished cleansing the wasteland. And some Prospectors now decided to come open it.

So in the last topic a person by the name of The Enclave said " that other than the oil rig and Novarro there were no othr enlcave bases" So said the president in F2.
Well it is true that he said that. But isn't it possible that he just said that because he knew that they were beaten and mentioning those other bases would possibly doom them as well ? He was probably just saying that to mislead you and protect the enclave in the future.

Except they were not beaten at that point, in fact none of the Enclave personal is hostile to the Chosen One in the Oil Rig unless you do something to make then consider the Chosen One a immediate threat (like opening fire on them) so he had no reason to "mislead" the Chosen One about anything.

Your only excuse is Richardson only mentioned currently active Enclave bases that at that point was just Navarro that served as a refueling station for Vertibirds as they occupied and then abandoned the remains of Mariposa Military Base, pretty much ANY Federal Installation (not to say Poseidon Energy and Vault-Tec) that survived the Great War could be used by the Enclave since they had direct access to then as shown in Poseidon Oil Nuclear Power Plant № 12 were using the network would allow direct contact with the Enclave (as they controlled and used Poseidon Energy Network).

Look having the remains of the Enclave is fine when it was done in New Vegas were they simply moved on, just like Super Mutants moved on in FO2 instead of having Master Mk.II ordering then, not that would such a bad idea considering Melchior and this "Enclave ... again" its just beating a dead horse, they are simply moved to be serious hidden threat in FO2 to a mustache twisting villain in FO3, the idolization some people have for them continues to astonish me because in FO3 they ARE the Bad Guy, they are shown to be the Bad Guy but their characterization is so superficial (dur dur EBIL) and paper thin (why hello there, we are taking over and killing everyone JUST BECAUSE) that I suspect people like then because they have Cool Stuff, not because they are the Enclave.

I suppose IF they shown the Enclave as they show the Brotherhood of Steel pointing out exactly WHAT they are/were it would be a good thing but timeline and FO3 already close that door, its simply too late now and FO3 pretty much excludes the Enclave unless you want to see the Geriatric Brigade in Power Armor Mk.II going about Genetic Purity.

There is no more Enclave. To add more Enclave for the sake of adding more Enclave does the world building serious disfavor. There is a reason why the Enclave Remnants are known as the Enclave Remnants. They're all that is left. If there were more, they would know about it. Obsidian is smarter than to just throw in silly fanservice crap that goes in the face of everything they have been designing just to make something that's "cool".

Perhaps, given that post-apocalyptic global communications would be severely limited or even impossible that some of the Enclave do exist. Completely unaware of the actions of what we have seen so far. They would be differently equipped, possibly with a different mentality also. They would however still have access to pre-war tech and knowledge, this is afterall what makes them powerful/scary.

How about a 'friendly' Enclave or a 'ghoulified' Enclave....

The possibilities are boundless.
Just because we have seen two large bases destroyed, doesn't mean that they even knew about all of the 'remnants'..
(I hesitate to call them this, however that is what ALL of the Enclave are, a remnant of a shady pre-war 'Men-in-black' type organisation.)

I understand that some people dislike the idea of their 'return', they don't have to, they could be 'reinvented'..

Wrong. Within New Vegas we have confirmation that there are still multiple Enclave outposts in the Chicago area. In ED-E, My Love, the first recording mentions the Enclave outposts of Chicago. Furthermore, the midwest in general is basically "unknown" seeing as Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel is not considered canon, save for major events (and some of these were even retconned by Fallout 3, which referred to the Midwest BoS as a small, rogue outpost). So Obsidian gave us the opportunity for more "cool fanservice crap" in subsequent Fallout games, but likely not a DLC.

Well there are probably several more large outputs left and one in Chicago is mentioned it wouldn't be the first time cannon was tweaked or broken although if they do come back I'd like to see them be like fallout 2 evil depending on your view not just killing everything for no real reason but I have no doubt obsidion would do a good job with them. I doubt we'll see them in any dlc put maybe in fallout 4 but I'd rathe they stay in the background since having been defeated multiple times they should be hiding and building their numbers before attempting to return.

Well, that's true, but as far as the Mojave is concerned I don't see why there should be more stories in relation to the Enclave. If a future Fallout game takes place further West, I suppose there is a possibility of seeing -other- Enclave outposts and remnants in other regions. But as far as New Vegas is concerned I don't think there is any reason to believe that there are any other remains of Enclave activity beyond what was already in the game.

There is only one outpost mentioned in Chicago. Chances are that outpost was set up on the way to DC. Only a few men would be left behind.

As for Fallout Tactics. No events from Fallout Tactics have been recanted by Fallout 3. The only mention of the MWBoS is "They have fallen on hard times." How does that undo events of Tactics? Tactics takes place several decades before Fallout 3. Long time for the Midwestern BoS to fall on hard times.

I would at least like to find some outpost where they all died of in-fighting or starvation. The ONLY reason I liked the F3 enclave was becasue of their officer uniforms. ( Now I didn't play the first two . I just saw videos on like so I don't know exactly what was going on just a little.) But the fact that you people are getting so angry about this idea . It is just odd

Enclave arn't in Fallout only Fallout 2 where they were destroyed but for Navarro. Fallout 3 has them setting up in DC and they get destroyed again. New Vegas tells us that Navarro fell to NCR and BoS and NCR hunted down any that survived. Those that left Navarro for DC left before NCR took Navarro.

Fallout 2 tells us there was only the Rig and Navarro. Fallout 3 tells us there were no Enclave in the East till after Fallout 2. Enclave are dead as large power, they will (should) never come back to once again threated in the wasteland, in their attempt to take over the world.

They will (should) just be remnants.

I would be ok with coming across abandoned pre-war military bases or poseidon energy buildings with Enclave notes, items and weapons but not active Enclave ploting world domination.

Your evidence is a audio log from a Enclave Scientist that send a Eyebot to a long abandoned base ... that means when it was sent Navarro base was still operational or believed to be operational.
Consider this, Eden's Enclave was the remains of the Enclave that made journey from the West Coast to Washington D.C.

I would say there are some ... problems with the timeline, to start it mentions Adams Air Base that means it was after they reached Washington D.C. and also it mentions the Hellfire Armor project that means the Armor project was not completed at that point.

Now that means it was send AFTER the destruction of the Oil Rig, AFTER their arrival at Washington D.C. but BEFORE it was assaulted by NCR forces and THAT means those Chicago Area outposts were around at the same time, I know some are going to say "but they could have hidden or classified the loss of Navarro" but I operate under the idea unless its been stated as such I will only use available facts and none say they covered up the loss of Navarro.

Now lets see dates ...

2242 - Destruction of the Oil Rig (FO2).
2254 - A Brotherhood of Steel squad led by Owyn Lyons is sent to Washington, D.C.
2255 - The Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel establishes the Citadel as their main base of operation in the ruins of The Pentagon.
2278 - Raven Rock is destroyed as well as their faces in Adams Air Force Base.
2281 - A Courier is ambushed and shot in the head in Goodsprings Cemetery.

So lets see ... a Brotherhood Squad takes about 1 year to go from Lost Hills Bunker to Washington, D.C., now ED-E takes THREE YEARS to make the trip from Washington, D.C. to whatever the place that Courier found it?

Sorry, does not add up ... we dont know WERE that Courier found ED-E and how long it was out, no way the trip of a fast moving Eyebot would take longer that of squad wearing Power Armored, even by taking the scenery road by making a stop at Chicago there is no way it would take THREE TIMES the time a the BoS squad that also made a stop at Pittsburgh.

You are using the lack of facts to say "we can have the Enclave" but I can also play that game showing were the facts show how.

1)We dont know when the Eyebot was sent but clearly it was after 2242 and before 2278.
2)We know there were Enclave outposts in Chicago at that time.
3)We know it taken a BoS squad about 1year to travel from Lost Hills Bunker to Washington, D.C

So everything says ED-E was disabled well before the Courier found it in Primm, I doubt it was just 3 years ago as I serious doubt that Hellfire Armor development taken days to complete and had starting production long enough to outfit several squads, even if the Advanced Power Armor taken only 5 years to complete and had a very stormy development cycle it still had 17 years of failures before the Presidential order was issued so I cannot see Hellfire Armor taking so little time and being manufactured and issued in such a wide scale.

It all points out ED-E was send a long time ago, back when Navarro was still a Enclave Base and was disabled on route and one day a courier drop it in Primm.

The quote from ED-E my love is "One of our outposts in Chicago." Multiple. Duckroll, I want to apologize for the harshness of my post in saying "Wrong," as the introduction. Was frustrated and allowed it to leak into the writing.

About Fallout Tactics, it's been stated by "The Higher Ups" that Fallout Tactics is not canon, save for some major events, but as Fallout 3 mentioned the Midwest BoS as a small, rogue outpost, I doubt they're the empire that appeared as a result of Fallout Tactics. Furthermore, Tactics violated a ton of Fallout lore, such as making fossil fuels plentiful and available for BoS and lowly Raiders alike (essentially nullifying the conflicts behind the Great War), making radiation poisoning effect ghouls, and allowing the Midwest Brotherhood of Steel to possess the production capabilities to manufacture new suits of Power Armor, rather than 'maintaining and hunting for pre-war tech,' as is the Brotherhood's shtick.

Wouldn't any surviving Enclave members be geezers, like the remnants? Because killing tons of elderly people does not a good DLC make.

Further, how many games do we need to fight the Enclave in before we're satisfied? I'd much prefer a new, emerging faction that acquired some scary Enclave tech, and is going to do god-knows-what with it.

I think the biggest issue is that within what is it like 10 years between fallout 2 and 3 they've been utterly destroyed on both coasts and honestly were pretty poorly executed in 3, they've decayed as a big bad yeah they've got tech but few people and they don't recruit so their dieing out like the BOS are and thus don't constitute a grave threat they've lost a lot of people and 2 of their main bases if they exist in any significant numbers they'd be biding their time attempting to bolster their forces not engaging in open conflict as a main faction. I have no problem with them coming back but it shouldn't be in any significant way for another game or two since their still pretty weak although abandoned outposts or maybe a small group that remained could be cool if done well.

Bethesda said the main events are Canon. Which means Vault Zero and Calculator. Which means they made it from Chicago to Cheyenne Mountain. Fallout Tactics takes place something like 79 years before Fallout 3. MWBoS have been around Five years before Lyons was Born. A long time for something to happen to cause "Hard times." It can also be writen in Future Games that Lyons did not really care about finding the MWBoS. MWBoS did not want to be found, so they told him a lie, saying they were nothing but a small group in Chicago. Simple as that.

Fallout Tactics does not Violate canon. Where in Tactics does it say the cars run on fossil fuels? They can just be running on bio-fuel made from corn. Boomers make fuel from corn in New Vegas. You may point out the "Oil Drums." There are many types of Oil, bio-oil being one. The drums are oil drums does not mean oil is in them. There is a stile in Tactics making large amounts of "Gut Rot." If raiders make that, the BoS can make fuel for cars.

There is nothing in the game that says they are making their own armour? Armour is different looking, big deal, look at Fallout 3. Full of new types of armour that were never around. If they were making their own why does the Elite only get PA? If they are making it they could give everyone a suit.

Wow radiation effects ghouls, Tactics isn't canon because of that :ahhh: :rolleyes: Ghouls do become effected by Radiation. They get to much and they become glowing ghouls. Fallout 3 added the ability for Glowing ghouls to heal other ghouls. So does that make Fallout 3 not canon?

There is nothing about Tactics that would make it none canon.

The original problem people had with Tactics was Vault Zero. Vault Zero is in Cheyenne Mountain. Now Fallout 3 aka Van Buren was to have a completely different version of Cheyenne Mountain. So people sided with Van Buren over Tactics. Van Buren was never made so it is not canon which means Tactics can't go against it.

It is easier to explain any inconsistencies with Tactics then it is with Fallout 3. Every Fallout has inconsistencies, it is wheather or not those inconsistencies become canon breaking like the "Burned Game" did. Tactics does not have any canon breaking inconsistencies. The intro as a hiccup saying BoS came from a vault of military vault drewllers. Fallout 2 talks about "Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans." Many just put that down to "poetic embellishment."

Here is a link to a topic were you can read my theory as to what caused the MWBoS down fall http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1188983-did-enclave-destroy-midwest-bos/

Completely random thought: While I wouldn't want the original Enclave to reappear as anything more than really small groups and maybe those outposts that were mentioned, I think a group of raiders or bandits or whatever who found notes about the Enclave and decided to try to imitate them as close as a group of people like that feasibly could, complete with metal armor fashioned to (probably barely) look like Advanced Power Armor and random doodads on their guns to try to make them look more like some of the Enclave's energy weapons, would make an interesting faction for a later game

I predict the Enclave's return in future Fallout games, they are just to good of a faction to throw away.

The main issue with Fallout Tactics is that it was not Fallout 3.

Its not the same case of the console Brotherhood of Steel that flat out ignored and re-written things, Tactics at least did not do that were even the complain about airships just falls into the "I dont like it" and I could swear that Matt mentions the Brotherhood had airships back in FO2 when he asks to steal the plans.

Also Cheyenne Mountain was not in Van Buren last drafts (it was cut), that is part of what Tactics screwed up as NORAD is listed as "offline in Poseidon Oil Powerplant No 12 network, of course it could be explained as the Calculator was defeated in 2198 that was well before FO2 events and perhaps NORAD was no longer located at Cheyenne Mountain or even that NORAD was in a different location of the complex that was hit as Vault 0 survived.

Sure Tactics have issues but Skynet? Hubologists? Richardson's secretary? Its not like FO2 does not have a lot of real world references and jokes. Its not as if Fallout is Oh! So Serious ...well when there is a Clinton/Monica joke that is not a Easter Egg you cannot call that a serious game.

Here's a simpler idea, the loss of Navarro was classified - much like early deaths from the development of Advanced Power Armour - for the sake of moral.

After a Legion DLC, I don't care.

No.

And thats final. No more Enclave. References and salvaged tech are fine, but a major faction? No!

Agreed.

It's a waste of opportunities to drag out the same old factions & monsters over and again. The remnants in New Vegas were a fitting conclusion to the Enclave saga.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, lore-wise. Old school Fallout fans have had far too much time to mull over the lore and it's gotten rigid in their minds (perfectly understandable), but a bit of retrocontinuity never hurt anyone. Keeps things fresh.

DID ANYONE READ THE FIRST STATEMENT IN MY POST THAT SAYS THERE SHOULD BE A DEAD BASE WITH SOME CORPSES ? OR DO YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HATING ON THE LATER PARTS OF THAT POST ? :banghead:

that is less likely that Enclave DLC because . It would be unable to be used by people who killed the major legion people. So ? Yeah

BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT THE ENCLAVE HAD NO REAL INSTALLATIONS ON THE WEST COAST OUTSIDE OF NAVARRO. ANY PISSY LITTLE OUTPOSTS WOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED BACK TO THE SAFETY OF NAVARRO AFTER ALMOST EVERYONE WAS KILLED IN 2242.