There's been a lot of debate surrounding Elder Scrolls Online, as to whether it's primarily a Theme Park, or primarily a Sandbox MMO, and while I won't say it is completely one or the other, I can certainly say that like any MMO, it will have aspects of both. .

So, if you're curious about the title, and as some of you might've guessed, the Sandbox I'm referring to is Cyrodiil. The game world is basically designed where people level up in a mostly Theme Park environment (each factions zones), and then go in and fight over the Province of Cyrodiil. For those who've played DAoC, you understand this concept very well.

What happens is you basically ride the ride in your normal factions zones while you level up, and THEN once you level up, then you go into the main PvP zone, and fight over Keeps/Castles (and in this game also farms/mines), where you can have a real impact on the world, and what happens there... You and your faction actually have a real impact on what goes on there...

Let's say you hear that one of your faction's keeps is under attack. Well, you can go defend it, or you can go do something else. If you don't defend it, your entire faction can lose that keep, and it's now replaced by the enemy faction's guards, their banners, their players, etc. Whereas if you had defended it, it could've had a totally different outcome.

So PvE in your own factions zones becomes a means to an end. The end, being the ongoing PvP battle for control of Cyrodiil. However, if you prefer to PvE, you can stay in your own factions zones and PvE in peace, and that can be an end in and of itself. So you get the best of both worlds...

On top of that, I would like to note however, that there will be some sandbox elements in the actual PvE zones as well. They said they'll be using phasing to allow different players to seemlessly experience the same areas in different ways... For example, one player might see a town full of werewolves, but when they complete a quest to rid the town of the plague, the werewolves will disappear. And another player who hasn't completed that quest will see the werewolves as still being there.

So it seems like they're really going out of there way to make this into a sandbox MMO as much as they are able, in an industry dominated by overly themepark MMO's (WoW anyone?), I say good job.

Having one huge Sandbox zone for players to play in, as well as various sandbox elements in the themepark zones, I'd say that's as good a job as an MMO can do without getting cheesy and having a world that's constantly different every single time a player turns his head.

The way I see it is, the PvE game is mostly the themepark. Whereas the PvP aspects are the Sandbox.

I don't see TESO being anything but themepark. Even Cyrodiil will be themepark, the forts and keeps will be static objectives. If it were a sandbox there wouldn't be objectives unless the players built them. Minecraft is a sandbox, EvE and Darkfall online are sandboxes. The closest comparison to TESO is DAoC which is themepark.

Players controlling who owns what keep, who the guards there are loyal to, etc. That's a sandbox element. So when you have a lot of those working together, it sort of turns the entire central PvP area into one big sandbox.

That's a good assessment, OP. I'd like to add that they are putting in a lot of sand boxy elements to the PVE as well - no quest hubs, open dungeons, lots to explore, etc. It isn't a pure sandbox, but it is a heck of a lot better than most decent MMOs.

@elth so what your saying is lineage 2 is not sand box because the castles are not player built, that's a silly argument and I agree with the op, the pvp does seem to be a big sand box, players having control over keeps being able to exchange control, dominate or side with other faction for you own benefit, hmm sounds pretty sandboxy to me. Needless to say I'm sure there are a ton more pvp aspects we don't know about yet that will expand pvp further we just have to wait and see.

I agree in that ESO definitely is inspired by both. The RvR, public dungeons, and one player being crowned emperor of Tamriel are clearly sandbox-inspired aspects that are typically not seen in your standard themepark. That being said, themeparks dominate the industry and ZOS is doing their best to accommodate that crowd as well. I think Matt Firor said it best in one of his interviews stating MMOs are a game consisting of many games within. The best thing ZOS can do is try to appeal to as many different audiences as possible while maintaining quality content with real significance and longevity.

Pure thempark, no even open world PVP, thats how you design themeparks. everything needs to be safe, no-one cant get mad/angry, theres always daddy watching over your shoulder, free cookies/candy too. For most of us, all fun is taken away.

IMHO, Cyrodill is nothing more than that machine, where you go in car and can bump other cars with it. Themepark feature.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx3C2Hk2Tuk

Cyrodil!

I wonder, what exactly is it that constitute a themepark and a sandbox?

As a roleplayer, my entire focus is on how much of a sandbox this could turn out to be for Elder Scrolls roleplay rather than anything about gameplay.

Sandbox is nothing more than metaphora from real life sandbox, where kids play, all those who've played in them when they were young should understand.

The problem of this genre is they still make games for 10-15 year old and most of us are full advlts!

As an article i read a while ago said: A sandbox is only nice when it has sand castles and forts, not when it's full of cat droppings and cigarette buds. As kids, we always had "pre-defined" toys in our sandbox as well, around which our made-up stories in a sandy make-believe world spun. TESO seems to go into the right direction here, by providing the ground rules, but let you freely explore within. After all, even a sandbox is just a box.

Yea, Agree... A lot of people are under the impression that a pure sandbox would be a good thing in an MMORPG. It isn't.

This is a good definition for the 2: http://thegameguru.me/2011/12/31/what-is-sandbox-vs-theme-park/

Another kiddy wow themepark? No way you achieve nothing witht that either.

Ive said already my opinion. I dont think TESO is enough, they should market this toward western Fantasy fans, and also keep pleasing Elder Scroll fans and hope they get enough subs to keep this going. This game isnt going to get any love from MMO/game community, this game is just another generic fantasy MMO what they are very willing to stomp over. Also they could considering adding some advlt stuff like six, boobs etc.

No one hates WoW more than me, and I said a "pure" sandbox wasn't a good thing... That doesn't mean a pure theme park is a good thing. A pure theme park and a pure sandbox both svck. You want to have elements of both, and ESO seems to achieve that nicely.

six and boobs? lol

Anything they can do to get apart from that wow-kid-crowd the better in my opinion. I want to know what age rate they want for this game TBH.

Redefining sandbox to suit your point of view by adding "sandcastles" and "toys" doesn't make it any less of a themepark. Neither does quoting or linking recent gaming media definitions. The RvR design of TESO sounds identical to DAoC, a themepark MMo. A sandbox has no restrictions, you can build what you want, where you want and smash everyone else's sandcastles whenever you want. This is not a sandbox no matter which way you look at it, it's no different from Warhammer lakes, Age of Conan borderlands, DAoCs Frontier or Warcrafts wintergrasp.

I'm not saying its a bad thing, I look forward to roaming Cyrodiil taking objectives and defending them in the name of High Rock. It's just not a sandbox.

I agree it is not a sandbox. It is a hybrid. It has themepark and sandbox elements, and I think it will be very fun. Would I like to see a AAA true sandbox MMO? Yes! Is there one? No. The sandbox games currently out have immense flaws that really ruin the experience for most people. I think TESO will be a nice mix of themepark and sandbox that will be an enjoyable experience for a LOT of people. Not really more to say than that.

This. Think thats what the OP was getting at as well.

Also to use a IRL Sandbox comparison for which the MMO term is based on, as a child I played very often in sandboxes and as I remember it was never just a box and only sand. There was always premade toys and things you used to enhance your play in the sandbox. Hence the correlation to Cyrodiil, yes some things are premade but its the players who control what happens.

What truly brings out the best in sandbox MMOs is when the developers give the players the tools to do some truly amazing things. That's how SWG operated and why it is still by far my favorite MMO to this day. I look forward to RvR and the faction conflict as I believe the more player-driven the war is, the more dynamic and memorable it will be as a result. It's nice for developers to give us a basic foundation, but what ultimately makes these games magical is the player-driven politics and control that come with them.

I could care less, theme park, Sandbox.
Its Elder Scrolls
I played WoW for 8 years and I'm not a WoW hater. I can not hate a game I have played for 8 years however they have lost me (not enough to do in WoW) I currently play RIFT.
But my fav MMO of all time was DAoC, and now that they are building DAoC 2.0 with the Elder Scrolls IP I for one could not be happier.

I will be very happy to play in their theme parks and sandboxes and have been looking forward to it since Morrowind.

Well, is it Elder Scrolls or is it DAoC2? I perceive a divide among the posters on this forum, and it seems to center on this question.

oh its Elder scrolls make no mistake

It will be better then DAoC
DAoC had almost no PvE endgame to speak of.

TESO will

I again think this is heavily modified Warhammer, it was released in 2008, they started to make this during that time. I still think good endless meaningful PVP is alot better then some gear-grind, but I dont know IF this is gear-driven game, but Ive a feeling they replaced gear-grind with skill-grind.

PVE gear-grind is probably most [censored] concept ever created.