First concept art of bungies new game has been released! : Othor Games

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:01 pm

Ooo me like.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:36 pm

So... it looks like they're remaking Halo? :shrug:

Without a PC release I'm unlikely to care in any case.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:48 pm

So... it looks like they're remaking Halo? :shrug:

Without a PC release I'm unlikely to care in any case.

That's where I'm at too. I think I've had it with buying consoles...any game that doesn't do a PC release might as well cost $350+.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:23 pm

Modern Indiana Jones and a post apocalyptic game? I love Naughty Dog but there wasn't a lot of originality in the basis of Uncharted and The Last of Us seems to be similar.

I was meaning the change from Crash Bandicoot to Jax and Daxter then to Uncharted.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:49 am

That's where I'm at too. I think I've had it with buying consoles...any game that doesn't do a PC release might as well cost $350+. :wink:

Hell, if it came with a http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Steel_Battalion_controllers.jpg I might actually buy it. :tongue:

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:30 pm

I am a huge fan of Bungie. I love ONI, and Halo. Also Marathon, although I've never played it, but have seen stuff from it.

Needless to say, if Bungie is involved, it'll probably be pretty good.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:40 pm

What's the inherent difference between an "MMO" and any other multi-player game outside of the way in which you find and connect with other players? I'm pretty sure the answer is "nothing," but correct me if I'm wrong.

Typically the subscription or the limited features unless you purchase them. If it was just a solid buy and I get full access, then I would be happily content if it's an MMO.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:58 am

Typically the subscription or the limited features unless you purchase them. If it was just a solid buy and I get full access, then I would be happily content if it's an MMO.

I don't understand people's reasoning on why they believe they shouldn't have to pay a subscription price.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:55 pm

I don't understand people's reasoning on why they believe they shouldn't have to pay a subscription price.

For me it's less of a "shouldn't have to" and more of a "don't want to." I never know how much time I'm going to get to play games, so I'm not going to pay a monthly fee for something I might not use much. :shrug:

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:26 pm

For me it's less of a "shouldn't have to" and more of a "don't want to." I never know how much time I'm going to get to play games, so I'm not going to pay a monthly fee for something I might not use much. :shrug:

I simply file it under the same category of having to pay for internet or cable or pretty much anything else you have to pay monthly for. I can understand your thinking, it's the "shouldn't have to" I'm questioning.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:48 am

I don't understand people's reasoning on why they believe they shouldn't have to pay a subscription price.

I think it's kind of dumb to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I literally just bought WoW, but that will be the only subscription MMO I will own. I shouldn't have to spend $40 on the game (on release), then another $30-$40 for any expansions (on release), on top of a sub that costs $15 monthly (this is going by WoW prices at times of releases, not now). There shouldn't be any subscriptions, just a single purchase for the game/expansion.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:53 pm

I think it's kind of dumb to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I literally just bought WoW, but that will be the only subscription MMO I will own. I shouldn't have to spend $40 on the game (on release), then another $30-$40 for any expansions (on release), on top of a sub that costs $15 monthly (this is going by WoW prices at times of releases, not now). There shouldn't be any subscriptions, just a single purchase for the game/expansion.

Just to play devil's advocate here...it could theoretically cost a LOT more to support an MMO purchase post-sale than any other type of game. In the case of MMORPG's like WoW they have to maintain a server infrastructure, fix bugs, fix game balance issues, etc., and most companies that run an MMORPG release at least a little bit of free content periodically. That's all in addition to the initial development costs and general product support. From a business perspective you could easily find yourself in the red if sales taper off and you still have to worry about all of the ongoing expenses.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:13 am

I think it's kind of dumb to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I literally just bought WoW, but that will be the only subscription MMO I will own. I shouldn't have to spend $40 on the game (on release), then another $30-$40 for any expansions (on release), on top of a sub that costs $15 monthly (this is going by WoW prices at times of releases, not now). There shouldn't be any subscriptions, just a single purchase for the game/expansion.

Read below:

Just to play devil's advocate here...it costs a LOT more to support an MMO purchase post-sale than any other type of game. In the case of MMORPG's like WoW they have to maintain a server infrastructure, fix bugs, fix game balance issues, etc., and most companies that run an MMORPG release at least a little bit of free content periodically. That's all in addition to the initial development costs and general product support. From a business perspective you could easily find yourself in the red if sales taper off and you still have to worry about all of the ongoing expenses.

As I have said, what makes subscription based MMOs any different than other monthly pay services?

When you sign up for cable TV, there's generally a sign up fee and perhaps some equipment to buy. Then you have to pay monthly. Want more channels? Pay more monthly.

It makes no sense that you ask game companies to put out a potentially endless product (an MMO) and request of them to only have to pay a single, one time, low end flat fee. And then want them to make additional content.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Just to play devil's advocate here...it could theoretically cost a LOT more to support an MMO purchase post-sale than any other type of game. In the case of MMORPG's like WoW they have to maintain a server infrastructure, fix bugs, fix game balance issues, etc., and most companies that run an MMORPG release at least a little bit of free content periodically. That's all in addition to the initial development costs and general product support. From a business perspective you could easily find yourself in the red if sales taper off and you still have to worry about all of the ongoing expenses.

Dont companies like EA have to handle all of that on consoles, plus the added cost of paying Microsoft/Sony to certify the patch and apply it? Granted, these games cost more on release than WoW did, and EA probably has more resources to use than Blizzard, but it shouldn't be that big of a difference between the two.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:29 pm

Read below:

As I have said, what makes subscription based MMOs any different than other monthly pay services?

When you sign up for cable TV, there's generally a sign up fee and perhaps some equipment to buy. Then you have to pay monthly. Want more channels? Pay more monthly.

It makes no sense that you ask game companies to put out a potentially endless product (an MMO) and request of them to only have to pay a single, one time, low end flat fee. And then want them to make additional content.

But some companies that release games exclusively on console already do that. Look at Halo 4, they release new CGI cutscenes and Spartan Ops missions weekly for free. Im not too up to date on MMOs to be fair, so I'm not familiar with how many patches/free content they release, or the frequency of them, but EA for example put out a lot of money for Battlefield 3 for example with their extremely large title updates and frequent smaller patches.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:01 pm

But some companies that release games exclusively on console already do that. Look at Halo 4, they release new CGI cutscenes and Spartan Ops missions weekly for free. Im not too up to date on MMOs to be fair, so I'm not familiar with how many patches/free content they release, or the frequency of them, but EA for example put out a lot of money for Battlefield 3 for example with their extremely large title updates and frequent smaller patches.

Halo 4 doesn't run dedicated servers.
When did CGI cutscenes become gameplay?
SPARTAN Ops, from my understanding, is not going to be free for a lengthy amount of time.

Not to mention, Halo 4 is not an MMO. Thus it's not anywhere limitless as an MMO is/can be.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:04 pm

Looks darker and more realistic than the flashy Halo universe.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:29 pm

Dont companies like EA have to handle all of that on consoles, plus the added cost of paying Microsoft/Sony to certify the patch and apply it? Granted, these games cost more on release than WoW did, and EA probably has more resources to use than Blizzard, but it shouldn't be that big of a difference between the two.

It requires a lot more hardware and infrastructure to run a game with always-utilized fully online instances than it does to periodically patch a game and host FPS-style versus matches. I also doubt that Halo 4 requires constant evaluation and re-balancing of character abilities, economy, etc. compared to an MMORPG. Of course, I don't have numbers to support any of this, but strictly as a person that's played MMOs and has a pretty significant amount of IT experience I'd guarantee you that it's a lot more expensive to run a full-on MMO. $15/month per player is a stretch, granted.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:38 pm

Halo 4 doesn't run dedicated servers.
When did CGI cutscenes become gameplay?
SPARTAN Ops, from my understanding, is not going to be free for a lengthy amount of time.

Not to mention, Halo 4 is not an MMO. Thus it's not anywhere limitless as an MMO is/can be.

Considering constant balancing changes these online FPS's go through, it doesn't matter if CGI cutscenes aren't gameplay. They aren't that short either, and still cost a lot of money to produce. And thats just Halo 4. Battlefield 3 went through a ton of title updates and patches

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:18 am

Considering constant balancing changes these online FPS's go through, it doesn't matter if CGI cutscenes aren't gameplay. They aren't that short either, and still cost a lot of money to produce. And thats just Halo 4. Battlefield 3 went through a ton of title updates and patches

How many Title Updates or balance changes has Halo actually had since release earlier this month?
Again, why are you bringing up CGI cutscenes? Not a single gaming company I can think of has ever charged people for a cutscene.

Swoop, you're fighting a losing battle here. On average, MMOs offer more content and/or longer life cycles than console, non-MMO games.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:43 pm

Considering constant balancing changes these online FPS's go through, it doesn't matter if CGI cutscenes aren't gameplay. They aren't that short either, and still cost a lot of money to produce. And thats just Halo 4. Battlefield 3 went through a ton of title updates and patches

Have you played many MMORPGs? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the amount of updating and balancing that happens monthly in even the really popular multi-player FPS's is nothing compared to what's in a typical weekly update in the more complex MMORPG's. :shrug:

Sure, FPS games get small changes to adjust balance here and there, but it's not anywhere close to as complex as balancing an RPG with all the stats, abilities, multiple classes, thousands of functional items, economies, etc.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:15 pm

What's the inherent difference between an "MMO" and any other multi-player game outside of the way in which you find and connect with other players? I'm pretty sure the answer is "nothing," but correct me if I'm wrong.

Not much, what I think would be nice is a large mmo world with FPS.

Something like survarium.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:55 pm

More space marines? Meh.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:19 am

Have you played many MMORPGs? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the amount of updating and balancing that happens monthly in even the really popular multi-player FPS's is nothing compared to what's in a typical weekly update in the more complex MMORPG's. :shrug:

Sure, FPS games get small changes to adjust balance here and there, but it's not anywhere close to as complex as balancing an RPG with all the stats, abilities, multiple classes, thousands of functional items, economies, etc.

Nope, WoW will be my first. But, I have heard that each patch that is released on Xbox costs thousands of dollars for the certification process alone (I'm not sure if the price scales to the size of the patch/update), but Battlefield has gone through half a dozen small patches that I know of (and I haven't even played in months), on top of the three-four 2-3 GB title updates. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying MMO's are cheap on upkeep, but charging $15 a month for several million people seems like overkill. If it was around the ballpark of lets say $10, then I think more people would play.

» Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:20 am

I think it's kind of dumb to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I literally just bought WoW, but that will be the only subscription MMO I will own. I shouldn't have to spend $40 on the game (on release), then another $30-$40 for any expansions (on release), on top of a sub that costs $15 monthly (this is going by WoW prices at times of releases, not now). There shouldn't be any subscriptions, just a single purchase for the game/expansion.

WoW sets up a terrible example of MMOs payment wise, if you look at others its not that bad. Take EVE for example, the game itself is free and so is all 18 expansions that has been released. That's the way MMOs should work IMO.