And the beholder is AlmSiVi.

Not for me...Dunmer!

Your lack of faith does not make it false, it just makes you wrong.

Hahaha who says i am lacking in faith, perhaps i believe something entirely different and the fact that i am NO Elf says enough my 'dark' friend!

Then where are your Gods human? At least ALMSIVI actually interacts with us and provides us with their direct protection. They guide us, show us the right paths to walk and love us. Can you say the same of your 'Gods'? Do you even know that they exist?

Silly N'wah...

The question makes no sense. They are both everywhere and nowhere; having given up their form in the act of creation That is what makes them Gods, rather than merely immortals of Godlike power.

ALMSIVI may have the power to reshape the ground on which you stand, perhaps even unmake it if they so deigned; but they did not create it. And perhaps it is fair that their people venerate them for what they have done, but it is rather dishonest to attribute to them what they did not do.

Mine is in my link in my sig. Hope to meet you all in game sounds like we will have some interesting inhabitants in game.

So you venerate your gods for being so stupid that they were tricked into mutilating themselves?

Myself, I would much rather venerate mortals that were so ingenious that they were able to BECOME gods.

Interesting! http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?s=81700128706d6d90479db384daf08b22&&app=forums&module=extras§ion=legends#

I love RP arguments.

Same here! *Grin*

This is a sub-set? This has been the definition of roleplaying for 40 years.

[Except... I don't know what 'emote' fighting is ~in-game chat?]

Sadly yes, it is a niche in the RP world. Most RP is based around dialog and emotes exclusively, as well as a thing called "head canon" that we, personally, disallow. They also tend to separate their characters from their in-game actions. A lot of role-players, sadly, consider questing and leveling to be separate from IC actions, which, in practical role-play the two are inextricably linked. The other side to Practical RP is what I call Make-Believe RP which is just as fun and valid, but for us does not lead to any form of immersion since you are just basically making stuff up. That is permissible for us in your character backgrounds, before the established start-point of the game, but once the game has begun everything you do is technically IC and should be noted as such, even if it never comes up in an RP scenario.

Emote-fighting is when you fight in a game using emotes instead of the game mechanics presented. So, if my character wants to fight another character, instead of /duel and actually fighting I use the /me or /emote command and say something like this: "Reymas Samarys attempts to swipe his blade across [CharName]'s throat." This person might respond with "[CharName] pulls back just in time to avoid the sweep of the blade, and takes a defensive stance, unhooking his mace from his belt" or some variation thereof. Sometimes dice-rolling is used as well in or out-of-game to determine success. To me this system feels incredibly redundant and overly-complex and simply is there to serve people who don't want to actually be beaten in a fight/humiliated.

This leads to a lot of power-gaming and mary-suing in my experience (as it was a HUGE problem in the SWG RP community) which is why we disallow it. If the game has no duel system or way to fight anyone then it is an understandable alternative. Also it violates our guideline of "roleplay what your character is, not what you wish your character to be." In the case of ESO, if your character has had his/her soul taken by Molag Bal according to the game (which all player characters have, without exception), no amount of RP can avoid that. It just makes your character delusional to still believe he/she has a soul. In a similar vein, if you are a level 1 character, or in more RP terms, a novice fighter, you would be best advised not to go toe-to-toe with a level 50, or masterful warrior, unless your character is notably foolhardy or again, delusional.

This is why I don't like Multiplayer RPGs.

What you describe is the only way I'd play an RPG; but it's almost never that way in a multiplayer game ~even with friends. In the single player games the NPCs are always IC.

Exactly, in fact that is one of the things we, The Morag Tong, try to embody, we almost want other players to see us as NPCs (hence why we NEVER break character to outsiders). We want to provide the same level of immersion that someone joining an NPC Morag Tong faction would feel, as best as we can within the limitations of the game. For example, the giving out of writs will be a very interesting thing to do for our members as well as our leadership. We will first need to identify both named NPCs who can be killed to give writs on (for those of our membership who prefer PvE) as well as amiable PCs who would OOC allow us to put writs on them and then will be willing to duel any Morag Tong member who comes to try and assassinate them. This would all be a lot easier with FFA PvP but this is a AAA game and the likelihood of that will be nil.

As for cross-faction writs, we have been considering gathering volunteers from other faction to act as targets in Cyrodiil. So since it is unlikely you'll see enemy character names, you get general information like: a Female Khajiit Nightblade with Dark Fur hanging around Leyawiin. And that information would come from a volunteer who has submitted themselves to be a mark for our guild, out of the kindness of their RPing heart (and of course they should fight our assassin and try to kill them as best as possible). We will start recruiting, secretly, cross-faction marks closer to launch, or perhaps we can make alts ourselves for this purpose but either way it should be a lot of fun for our members.

So anyway, I understand your perspective for sure and we do our best to combat that. If you're planning on having a Dunmer character I dare say you might have a lot of fun with us.

I acknowledge them as creators. Whether or not they were tricked is a matter of competing doctrines, but also one entirely moot to the question. It is their part in the act of creation that differentiates the gods from other immortal beings of immense power. Drawing any other line suggests that any vampire of sufficient power might lay legitimate claim to the title as well.

All I know so far is that I'm gonna RP a dunmer. Probably a Telvanni Battlemage, with all that entails.

As long as I can fight my opponents with my bare fists (doesn't have to be viable or effective or anything, just has to be possible) everything else is gravy.

Humans, so lost in the half-truths of their religions...once, we were all gods. Your gods were reluctant participants in creation, you only worship one god that deserves it. Whom we call Lorkhan. Yet at least you are not so foolish as our distant cousins to the West whom worship those who want to unmake us and already abandoned us and condemn the one who did love us. None of us have attributed creation to our Holy Triune. They are the arbiters of our transcendence and the guides to our true purpose in the true sense of creation. As Vivec teaches us. What created your gods? They are not the true creators. They are a continuation of other creators. Much as the Tribunal is the evolution of Mortal and Immortal relations. They bring us closer to them and thus our Gods are better gods, more potent gods and more reliable gods.

True muthsera, why venerate those who created us if they did not mean too? Must we love our father if he had accidentally caused our mother to swell with child and then abandoned us? He gave us life and then did nothing else for us. Our creation was not for our interests but for their self interest. The same is true of the so called Aedric gods. They offer nothing and demand everything. At least the Daedra give us power in return for worship. ALMSIVI has proven that it loves us.

Much as calling them the creators is a relative thing for what created them? There is a long chain of creators that brought us to our world today. You pick one group of them that may or may not have even intended to participate in creating us. Ahh, the morality of a shortlived and shortsighted being, truly the gods left you bereft of the blessings owed you. If such a Vampire had such power and used it to better the people why should it not be worshiped as a god? Would it not be deserving of such praise?

It matters not. They built this world, not their creators. Father is still father, despite having a father of this own. And teacher is still teacher; he is not of your blood, even if he takes on a paternal role and asks you to call him father.

As to whether gods, or parents, deserve respect for their creative act in your formation... is another debate entirely. Notice that I acknowledge the gods of my people while blatantly ignoring the charge that I venerate them.

I shall remember you have asked that question, when I stand in such a position myself. And from you alone, will I demand such praise; the rest, may merely call me Master.

Ahhh...I see, my mistake. I assumed you worshiped and venerated your Gods. If you acknowledge them then you are the same as us in that regard.

An alien concept to me now I must admit, although it was not always so. Not venerating ALMSIVI would be foolish to me. They give us blessings that we can use in everyday life and provide for us in many ways. They are active and very present. I suppose that makes all the difference. I was born an Ashlander, I once thought they were merely there to be worshiped and provided nothing for us. Then they saved me and imbued me with their divine power. Once I was one of their Hands. Once...

If you demand and do not ask, if you demand and do not provide, you will quickly gain my blade faster than my praise friend. If you attained such power and used it for the people's benefit, I would praise you most high. That is however, a very large if.

It is not for nothing that I am called a heretic; I worship no gods. In truth, I am more partial to what I have seen of the Dwemer philosophy - though I'll grant that is but faded scraps, incomplete and perhaps erroneously interpreted.

And yes, your ALMSIVI is active and very present. So too is the vampire who tends to his coven while preying on the outsiders. Do I praise him for using his power for the benefit of those he is fond of, or do I put the knife to his heart for his acts against those he feeds apon?

Nonsensical imperial drivel, that. A vampire is not immortal, merely ageless. I've slain them myself. Vivec, on the other hand, cannot die. For him, death is merely a diagram back to the waking world.

I myself would much rather worship the active teacher than the forgotten father. If the father remains and teaches as well, then the decision is easy. When the father may have been accidental, and when he abandons you after the fact, he deserves neither veneration nor praise.

Better to love the one who takes you under his wing despite the fact that he has no responsibility to do so. This is ALMSIVI. Mother Almalexia, Master Sotha Sil, and Lord Vivec care for their people for the sake of love rather than out of guilt or some misplaced feelings of obligation.

I'm planning on playing a Nord vampire who actively puts himself in dangerous situations in the half-hearted hope of being with his wife again.