[REL] Frostfall - Hypothermia, Camping, and Survival

Post » Fri May 25, 2012 10:31 pm


With regards to water:
I am investigating a method to make exploring frigid water more palatable (without being a vampire). I'm leaning toward a potion. If I can't craft the potion via the regular means without editing alchemical supplies (and thus risk breaking compatibility), the crafting of such a potion will work similarly to crafting all other campsite items. Not my first choice, but possibly a necessary one.
I've mentioned the use of Troll fat as an item to help with heat loss in water. The idea being that you smear your skin with the fat to lower the conductivity between skin and water.
You could set it with conditions in a crafting menu, or have it do so for hardcoe, like: Having to set up Tent or being inside/near fire source, to simulate one getting the clothes of and smearing the foul stuff on. Maybe even getting the disease: smelly :P

Looking forward to the new version.
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Richard Dixon
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 12:18 pm

So, way back in the early stages of even prototyping this mod, and coming from the Morrowind school of modding (so, totally ignorant of more modern Bethesda game engines), I read on a forum post somewhere that basically stated that creating a new crafting workbench that is brand-new and doesn't use one of the pre-defined systems (smithing, alchemy, enchanting) is "impossible" and won't work. I blindly accepted it as fact at the time and never tested it, and built the menu-driven crafting system that's in place today.

http://i.imgur.com/QDSCn.jpg

I am now working on porting the creation of all camping supplies over to a new "crafting station" that will be invoked with a small item in your inventory, or possibly a power, and it will be driven instead through Skyrim's much nicer and easier to use crafting system.

The Basic Camping Supplies are looking more and more functionally obsolete, since I'm breaking the camping supplies up into miscellaneous items anyway. As an item, it may be disappearing soon. (Which is kind of a pity, since I really love that new mesh from born2bkilled. Maybe I can find a place for it somewhere else... perhaps a loading screen? I've been meaning to do some of those)

Edit: http://i.imgur.com/dqA0x.jpg I'll keep it as loading screen art.
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Tracy Byworth
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 10:23 am

http://i.imgur.com/QDSCn.jpg

Edit: http://i.imgur.com/dqA0x.jpg I'll keep it as loading screen art.

This is just awesome. Keep up the good work.
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 10:30 am

Thanks!

I'm really a svcker for those kinds of ensembles of models. They remind me of the old http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes from Morrowind. If someone makes a class-based system for Skyrim sometime (maybe that's already been done, I've had my head in the sand), they should make one of these for each class you can select. I can dream...
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Natalie J Webster
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 9:43 pm

I'm really a svcker for those kinds of ensembles of models. They remind me of the old http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes from Morrowind. If someone makes a class-based system for Skyrim sometime (maybe that's already been done, I've had my head in the sand), they should make one of these for each class you can select. I can dream...
I'm with you on that. Absolute must for a class mod.
Oh and good work on the supplies interface! (although the character's not likely to carry an anvil around, and you wanted this to be portable... just a thought)
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Charlotte Henderson
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 1:43 pm

although the character's not likely to carry an anvil around

Heh, please disregard. It was a 30-second "can I do it?" test. The important bit is that even though I'm using an anvil, I'm not using Smithing.

I've got it assigned to a power now called "Survival Skills", and your character sits down on the ground cross-legged, and it opens up the crafting menu. I think it looks pretty cool :)
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SUck MYdIck
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 1:38 am

Thanks!

I'm really a svcker for those kinds of ensembles of models. They remind me of the old http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes from Morrowind. If someone makes a class-based system for Skyrim sometime (maybe that's already been done, I've had my head in the sand), they should make one of these for each class you can select. I can dream...

With you on the ensembles! The one from born2bkilled looks fantastic.
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Kortknee Bell
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 8:16 pm

Heh, please disregard. It was a 30-second "can I do it?" test. The important bit is that even though I'm using an anvil, I'm not using Smithing.

I've got it assigned to a power now called "Survival Skills", and your character sits down on the ground cross-legged, and it opens up the crafting menu. I think it looks pretty cool :smile:
I expected as much :P
Sounds great! Powers are a good way to go, in my opinion. (Lesser, of course...)
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 5:13 pm

Keep up the great work Chesko! One of the main reasons I fire up NMM before I play every few days is to see if there's and update for Frostfall because of all the cool stuff the mod brings to my Skyrim experience :)

--Thom
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Chad Holloway
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 4:44 pm

Here's a look at new image space effects. I'll need feedback on these.

http://i.imgur.com/OjRsp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ixcUs.jpg Not much difference, except some slight blurring around the screen edge.
http://i.imgur.com/s3hrx.jpg Brightness and HDR get turned up a bit. More screen edge blurring.
http://i.imgur.com/3mnoG.jpg Strong HDR increase (moderate snow-blindness). Screen edge blurring and depth of field.

Good? Not good? Just right? These pictures don't do a very good job of conveying what it looks like in motion. Also keep in mind that I want to say "hey! you're dying!" without crippling the player's ability to see. The closest I can get to "frost on the edges of the screen" is the radial edge blurring you see here.

I'm using crossfades, so the transition between them is nice and smooth. I need to make a video sometime soon.

Edit: http://i.imgur.com/fAGPU.jpg

Edit 2: http://i.imgur.com/dgul2.jpg for 12 pelts. They can be used more than the smaller tents. Also has dynamic snow if in a snowstorm, as seen above.
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Scott
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 11:17 am

Hard to say when not in motion as you say. But they are visible, and getting that blue ting with blur is a good way to get your attention.

Other fx is temporarily quick shuddering of the screen to visualize the PC shaking when practically freezing to death. And sound fx for the lighter changes.

Cheers!
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Tarka
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 12:53 pm

I think I'd rather see darkening than brightening... the brightening seems like "heightened sense of awareness, you're in the dangah zone!" whereas a dark effect seems like "wheezing, trouble moving, can't think clearly."

Is it possible to darken the edges of the screen only? I don't know what IS effects there are, but a progressively larger area of the screen becoming dark would be neat.
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how solid
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 11:39 am

The image space effects look good enough to me. I do think darker would work as well, but the brighter effects make it feel "icy" with blur. I'm okay with whichever.

I just really want to know how much everything is going to weigh altogether. I'm soooooo sticking with 1.4 :lmao:
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claire ley
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 2:04 pm

My "target weight" is going to be about 25lbs for a decent supply of fire kits, a small tent, and a cooking pot. Carrying more than this is going to of course cost you more in terms of weight. The "Large" variant tents will have pretty high weight, and are more intended to be carried by a follower, or assumes you're load-balancing some of the other gear with a follower. (Yes, followers will be able to carry your stuff.)

I like the idea of a vignetting effect (tunnel vision?). I'll have to see how possible it is. Also someone brought up that the blood-spatter effect uses a texture; maybe it will be possible to frost the edges of the screen. I'll have to check in to it.
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kirsty williams
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 6:52 pm

My "target weight" is going to be about 25lbs for a decent supply of fire kits, a small tent, and a cooking pot. Carrying more than this is going to of course cost you more in terms of weight. The "Large" variant tents will have pretty high weight, and are more intended to be carried by a follower, or assumes you're load-balancing some of the other gear with a follower. (Yes, followers will be able to carry your stuff.)

I like the idea of a vignetting effect (tunnel vision?). I'll have to see how possible it is. Also someone brought up that the blood-spatter effect uses a texture; maybe it will be possible to frost the edges of the screen. I'll have to check in to it.

Vignette! That is the word I was looking for but couldn't remember... yes, that is exactly what I meant :)
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N Only WhiTe girl
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 5:42 pm

Here's a look at new image space effects. I'll need feedback on these.
I think the best would be also to have "freeze spots" on the screen - you know, kind of "blood spots" effect that we have now on the screen when we cut some bandit or other enemy.
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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 1:36 am

Question: how long is "long enough" for an armor coating to let you swim in frigid water? Is 5 minutes too generous? I haven't had a chance to do a lot of underwater expeditions.

Assume that you can carry more than one and that each will take about 4 dwemer oil to create.
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Brian LeHury
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 4:41 pm

Question: how long is "long enough" for an armor coating to let you swim in frigid water? Is 5 minutes too generous? I haven't had a chance to do a lot of underwater expeditions.

Assume that you can carry more than one and that each will take about 4 dwemer oil to create.

Real-time minutes? Five is a lot, but if it's a consumable, I wouldn't say it's too long.
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celebrity
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 3:19 pm

5 minutes is way too generous. I'm sure you could swim from top to bottom of Skyrim in 5 minutes. 1 minute tops in frigid water, but seeing how dwarven oil is specialty, then 2 minutes sounds reasonable if you were only allowed to carry 1. Being able to carry more than 1, then what's the point of frigid water if you're a god/ess? I know you're adding it in for the moments you need to swim, but let's not lose the survival aspect. Having an option to turn it down or off is a plus, though.
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 2:09 pm

Porscha - Yea. It's hard to balance this in such a way as to not destroy the integrity of the mechanic (just buy your way out of it). I was driven in the direction of a consumable because something like a piece of armor (a fur wetsuit or something) really would be like an on / off switch. And since all camp items are just inventory items now, I can't limit how many you can carry. So I either make it out of Unobtanium, or extremely expensive, or actually hand-place the consumable in the world, and have there be a very finite number of them. I like the idea of Dwemer oil because it strikes a good balance between being rare enough and making sense. But once a player hits level 16 and starts raiding dwemer ruins, the mechanic might as well just go away.

I guess the other alternative is giving it a very short duration, so that you're always eating them. But the thought of rubbing oil on myself, while submerged in frigid water, once every 30 seconds, sound ridiculous.

I may just go with a potion that's rather difficult to make / obtain, and have done with it instead of trying to devise a suitable topical solution. I'm kind of stuck here in coming up with a good mechanical solution that makes sense flavor-wise.

Edit: Another option would be to remove cold water killing you directly, and instead roll it into the Exposure system. By that I mean, use cold water as a factor in the EP calculation and let it kill / hamper you instead of having a separate mechanic for water do it. And the consumable could help stem the additional EP loss from water by, say... 75%. That way there's no real separation between Exposure and water mechanics, and nothing you do would be able to allow you to exist in freezing water forever (even if you are rich).
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James Hate
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 1:29 am

One thing for sure, Cheskomie, don't wear yourself out. :no:

I can't wait for the new update, but I want it when the time is right and you've been working comfortably on it. :yes:


I, too, agree that rubbing oil on yourself when you're in water every whenever is silly. I know your aim for this mod since the early versions. You've always expressed that you want it to be as realistic and versatile as they can be and at the same time.


Perhaps Horker Meat (the idea of blubber) plus Dwarven Oil (more ingredients make it slightly more challenging to get together) can be combined to produce the potion or temporary "heat cloak" ? Just tossing ideas :smile:


{edit]
Edit: Another option would be to remove cold water killing you directly, and instead roll it into the Exposure system. By that I mean, use cold water as a factor in the EP calculation and let it kill / hamper you instead of having a separate mechanic for water do it. And the consumable could help stem the additional EP loss from water by, say... 75%. That way there's no real separation between Exposure and water mechanics, and nothing you do would be able to allow you to exist in freezing water forever (even if you are rich).

That sounds much better and not escaping the the whole EP system, as it's still an element of cold factors. It does feel dangerous though emerging in freezing water knowing you don't have much time to stay in it. I'd probably like it the new way, too, as it makes sense especially with the new resistance item. 75% loss sounds like a good balance.
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Ana
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 6:52 pm

Chesko, Any plans to add the ability to craft a makeshift cloak/covering/wrap out of pelts? I was thinking I would love to add that to Hypothermia, but I realized you're already setup to do it, since you have the crafting infrastructure already. It also fits better with Frostfall. If you're planning on implementing that, I don't want to duplicate your efforts or copy you.

Edit: Answered via PM.

Regarding your problem with water, Hypothermia incorporates water into the main temperature system, and I think it works well. It really makes this quote true, except for the hot springs.

That way there's no real separation between Exposure and water mechanics, and nothing you do would be able to allow you to exist in freezing water forever (even if you are rich).
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Rudi Carter
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 9:41 pm

I also like the idea of incorporating the water effects into the main exposure system. It should have the same effect in the not-so-long run, just by a different route. You could also make it superficially distinct by keeping the flash of blue upon entering, though I would personally prefer some continuous pulsating effect. In addition, the incorporation would take care of the cheap trick of constantly jumping out at surface level to restart the timer (at least that seemed possible last time I crossed a long stretch of water).

Regardless, whatever you do, I'm sure it will be fantastic. Thanks for this!
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Kerri Lee
 
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Post » Sat May 26, 2012 2:24 am

v1.6 beta 1 is up on Skyrim Nexus. This build is for testing only and should not be used in a main game. I'm mainly interested in whether or not this craters your game (like 1.5 did), as well as some other items. Early feedback indicates that people's games are not exploding and that several major issues have been fixed (script execution, werewolves).

Main things I would like folks to try is:
1) load a game saved with v1.5.1 on it, and see if everything seems OK.
2) Load a new game, and see if everything seems OK. (alternate start mods / intro bypass mods should be OK)
3) Try crafting using the new crafting interface.
4) Try harvesting some wood.
5) Try becoming a werewolf and see if your exposure is OK.
6) Try becoming a vampire and losing most / all of your EP. You should remain unaffected (except for a movement penalty).
7) Try using the new camping equipment by dropping them into the world.
8) Try reassigning the WEAR exposure protection value of a piece of modded armor by using the Inspect Equipment ability.

Thanks for any help and assistance with testing. It really helps!

Abridged patch notes:

General
  • Overhauled Start (Read "Survivor's Guide to Skyrim" in any inn, usually in the room you stay in) This must be done before the mod will start, or before you receive any of the new abilities.
  • Overhauled Crafting System (use the Survival Skills power)
  • Greatly optimized script execution
  • Overhauled WEAR mechanic. Now applies to all pieces of body gear. Displays a message when you equip the item displaying its protection value.
  • You can now assign the exposure protection value of any piece of armor (including modded armor) by using the Inspect Equipment ability.
  • Overhauled Fast Travel Cost mechanic. You now only need a Woodcutter's Axe in your inventory to fast travel, if enabled.
  • New Immersion options: Completely disable Fast Travel, or completely disabled Fast Travel AND Waiting outdoors.
  • New Wood Harvesting mechanic: equip a Woodcutter's Axe to open the new menu.
  • Fixed Werewolf bug. Werewolves now have full exposure protection.
  • Freezing and Freezing to Death now have a movement speed penalty.
  • Vampires are no longer harmed by exposure; however, their movement speed is hindered as per normal.
Camping
  • You can now craft large tents.
  • You can now craft torches.
Known Issues (to-do for Beta 2):
  • The scripts that drive several elements of the mod were mistakenly left out of Beta 1's archive (camping equipment, wood harvesting, inspect equipment). These features will not work. You should be able to craft camp items, but you won't be able to use them. I will make sure all of the required files are in Beta 2's archive.
  • There is a bug which may cause to you lose about 40 EP when you first start the mod. Report if this happens.
  • There is a bug where it may take a very long time to warm up near a fire in certain interiors. Report if this happens.
  • You may be able to harvest wood in interiors.
  • Cloaks of Skyrim support is implemented, but the property isn't hooked up yet (i.e., it won't work).
  • Reassigning the protection values of default armors may not always have the intended effect.
  • The menu object for Survival Skills is really jacked up looking.
  • The WEAR exposure protection values haven't been finalized.
  • The frigid water potion hasn't been implemented yet.
  • Water effects have not been changed yet.
  • Lightable fires have not been implemented yet, however there is a menu object for it (it just points to nowhere)
  • Camping supplies when dropped don't drop in front of the player.
  • Troubleshooting menu system has not been implemented yet ("I'm Stuck Wet", "My Stats Are Messed Up", "I'm Stuck Slow", etc)
  • Alcohol and Food effects are not implemented yet.
  • An alternative means of acquiring the Weathersense Ring has not been implemented yet
Reported Feedback:
  • People are reporting that script execution is much better, and that the script system is no longer slowing down.
  • I've been told that the mod starts with the book correctly, and they are given the correct new abilities (Inspect Equipment, Survival Skills, Weathersense)
  • I've been told that the Werewolf bug has been fixed.
Enjoy, and thanks for any feedback and testing assistance.
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JD bernal
 
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Post » Fri May 25, 2012 3:07 pm

Ugh. Found (part of) the problem with the reports where things aren't working (camp items, wood harvesting, inspect equipment).

Any of my scripts that drive the new camping mechanics (tents, firekits, cooking pots), as well as the script that drives the wood harvesting mechanic and inspecting equipment, didn't make it into the BSA archive last night for some reason. It was 2AM, sue me.

I'll, uh, make sure all of the files are there when I repackage beta 2 this evening. :tongue:
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Red Sauce
 
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