[WIP] Frostfall

Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:10 am

Beta invites just got sent out to select testers. Still working on getting a few features added in before the general release. Shouldn't be too much longer now.
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danni Marchant
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 12:11 am

Beta invites just got sent out to select testers. Still working on getting a few features added in before the general release. Shouldn't be too much longer now.

Very good news. Thanks for your work.
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Maddy Paul
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 7:57 am

May I suggest the author to put in the mod the possibility of some sort of "temporary cheat item" that would ensure compatibility with mods?

I present thee an example:
I make a super iced chilly dungeon that has an indefinetly uberhuge underwater passage you must pass to proceed. This should be a breath challenge, but now it will be a deathtrap.
This mod, together with this dungeon, would make it not difficult but just IMPOSSIBLE, since the only way to resist cold water is getting out of it.

So, i present thee some possible solutions:

Heat potions (temporary immunity to cold), that should be HARD to obtain, if not unique AND/OR massively debuffing.
Maybe craft with grand soulgems / dragon souls? Or drinking it would sacrifice 80% health for the rest of the day?

Survival perk tree: With various tweaks and an ability to NOT FEEL THE COLD for a while a day. Like "I stab myself with adrenaline and be so crazy i don't feel cold" for 30 secs a day

If not, this mod would entirely prevent some things, while it should leave all the possibilities open
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Dean
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:28 am

Two parts to this:
  • As far as displaying a temperature goes, I've been asking myself this sort of thing for a day or so now. My feeling is that most would find a oCelcius readout immersion-breaking, since temperature measurement isn't really a thing in Tamriel. I'd be quicker to display descriptive things like "warm", "cool", "freezing". That being said, if this is something people want, I can make it an option.
  • As far as a permanent user-interface element, this is an area I have zero expertise. My plan was to provide helpful (non-spammy) text notifications in the upper-left corner when things change, as well as give you some method in the inventory screen to invoke a menu to tell you the current situation.

For number 2, I really, really need to talk to someone who knows Scaleform UI and can tell me if adding such a UI element would play nicely with people's SkyUI installation (which I personally use).



I'd like to compartmentalize combat mechanics away from survival mechanics. To wit; the flames in your hands with a Flame spell readied don't burn your hands, so neither should they keep you toasty warm. Same for damage, it won't affect EP loss or gain.

However, frost resistance does play in to your EP preservation. I did this because a) it makes sense, and :cool: it means Nords can stand the cold better than others automatically, and I don't have to edit their race. I was about to agree to Frost Shield giving you some sort of bonus, but I see now that there's no elemental resistance spells in Alteration, which is...buh? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Frost_Shield, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Frost_Shield.

Summary: aetherial magicks are all wiggidy-woogidy and won't mess up your vibe.
Maybe the temeprature readout could be implemented graphically in the shape of a quicksilver thermometer. One would imagine that with all those alchemical tables found around people are aware of thermometers even without having to resort to ancient dwemer knowledge.
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 12:51 am

May I suggest the author to put in the mod the possibility of some sort of "temporary cheat item" that would ensure compatibility with mods?

The good news is that the calculation for interiors is different from exteriors. In interiors, you can't lose EP, and water won't have the same effects. Hopefully this should avoid the problem you mention here, where water is used for a thematic / gameplay reason in a dungeon.

Maybe the temeprature readout could be implemented graphically in the shape of a quicksilver thermometer. One would imagine that with all those alchemical tables found around people are aware of thermometers even without having to resort to ancient dwemer knowledge.

Good idea. Do you know any Flash artists? That's what I really need at this point for an interface element to move forward.

EDIT: Updated the OP with final-ish penalties for different stages of hypothermia. I hope they are to everyone's liking. (I was wanting to do skill percentage penalties, but that ended up being much more difficult / risky than anticipated, so I went with straight-up point reductions. I hope they're easy enough on the low end to not clobber level 1 players while still giving a level 50 player pause at the high-end. I also opted to affect your Health/Magicka/Stamina regeneration rate, instead of the actual amount of each, which I think might actually be even more detremental.)

EDIT 2: Getting warm near the many hearths, campfires, and fireplaces in Skyrim is in. Should be in the next beta.
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Samantha Pattison
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:12 am

Good idea. Do you know any Flash artists? That's what I really need at this point for an interface element to move forward.
Unfortunately, I don't :( The use of flash for the UI really cut off me from modding this aspect of the game. I'm mostly a texture artist and a long time level designer but my programming skills are limited to ancient languages back from the days of Amigas and MS-DOS PCs.
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 1:26 am

I've been interested in the UI thing for awhile now as well, for my mod. You might want to check out http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3863. He's developing a SkyUI library for other mods to use.
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Quick Draw III
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 9:58 am

I've been interested in the UI thing for awhile now as well, for my mod. You might want to check out http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=3863. He's developing a SkyUI library for other mods to use.

Sounds promising. I'll make this optional in the future then. I'll tailor things such that you won't need a UI element (though it would be nice to have). That way, you don't need SKSE, but if you have it, bonus. I'll update the OP to reflect this.

To be honest, I'd rather not have a UI element in your face all of the time for this. I am very anti-UI. It should be something I can check if I want, and then not be there the rest of the time and let me focus on the important part, adventuring. The mod should alert you via message or shader effect on your character when important things need your attention. I have no desire for this to be something that gets in your way, but rather something that lurks in the background and influences rather than forces how you play the game.
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lauren cleaves
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Sounds promising. I'll make this optional in the future then. I'll tailor things such that you won't need a UI element (though it would be nice to have). That way, you don't need SKSE, but if you have it, bonus. I'll update the OP to reflect this.

To be honest, I'd rather not have a UI element in your face all of the time for this. I am very anti-UI. It should be something I can check if I want, and then not be there the rest of the time and let me focus on the important part, adventuring. The mod should alert you via message or shader effect on your character when important things need your attention. I have no desire for this to be something that gets in your way, but rather something that lurks in the background and influences rather than forces how you play the game.

There's a lot to be said for this. I like the approach.
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Victor Oropeza
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:31 am

I really like this idea, looking forward to seeing it!
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krystal sowten
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 6:29 pm

Could you make cold effects from water dependent on the background temperature of the region? Wading into a puddle on a sunny day near Whiterun shouldn't have serious consequences. Neither should the lake near Riften (you have to swim this one in a TG quest).
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candice keenan
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 2:46 am

I really like this idea, looking forward to seeing it!

Thanks!

Could you make cold effects from water dependent on the background temperature of the region? Wading into a puddle on a sunny day near Whiterun shouldn't have serious consequences. Neither should the lake near Riften (you have to swim this one in a TG quest).

Already done. The temperature of the water should follow the temperature of the region. Getting 'wet' won't occur unless you actually get deep enough to swim in it (technical constraint; that's the best I can detect). The Riften area is in the southern forest regions, and you would have no trouble swimming there, or any of the areas around Riverwood and Falkreath. General danger sign is ice floating in water = not good for your health.
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Emma Pennington
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 10:50 pm

This project sounds amazing! I'm really psyched about it :D
Have you thought about making snow more interesting? standing still in snow or just moving around in snow drains stamina or movement speed or something, giving it some real effects.
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how solid
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 11:21 pm

How about adding different kinds of cloaks to the vendors of Skyrim. Then you wouldn't have to either go with modding every armor piece in the game, nor have to just make every t-shirt keep you warm in the cold mountains - at least not without a decent cloak! :). of course this would require a cloak model or 5 (for different qualities).
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Lady Shocka
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 4:42 am

Cheska,

First off, I just want to wish you the best of luck with this. You are a better man than I to put something like this together. It is really challenging to design stuff like this since it walks that line between fun and frustrating. My only concern would be a common problem with a lot of these kinds of mods (realistic hunger, needs, encumbrance, wounding, etc.). And that is that none of these things affect NPC's. I tried so many of these kinds of mods with Oblivion, only to give up after a few days out of frustration that NPC's were not being penalized the same as the player. I love the idea of this mod and hope you are able to pull it off.
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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 10:35 am

Beta 2 & 3 (released): Campfires, hearths, and other fires throughout Skyrim now replenish EP when standing next to them.

Beta 4 should be out this evening, and makes Fire Kits a prerequisite for Fast Travel. It's also smart; I look at how far you Fast Traveled, and I won't consume a kit unless you travel far enough away. (For instance, FT from Dragon's Reach to the Whiterun Stables won't eat a Kit). My quick tests seem to indicate that it works pretty swell.

I'd like Beta 5 to roll in detecting whether or not you're wearing clothing, but boy-oh-boy is detecting that much, much harder than I anticipated. "Surely," says I, "Surely they have a function to return, at the very least, the type of armor worn in a particular slot." You know what they say about assuming. EDIT: There's two conditional functions, WornApparelHasKeywordCount and GetClothingValue that may do what I'm looking for.

noderunner,
As you mention, your stats could be negatively affected when theirs will not be. I can only assume you "[gave] up after a few days out of frustration" because you either kept dying or the gameplay was made too challenging / tiresome by some of the mods you mention. Either way it sounds like your "realism" mods were beating you over the head with penalties. I don't want to do that. What I want is for you to take a second to stop and think, "I'm hypothermic. I can't feel my fingers. Do I really want to take on that camp of bandits over the ridge? Or should I make camp, wait until dawn, and take them on when I'm warm and ready to fight?" So you pop a fire kit, maybe pop a tent if the weather is bad, heal up your EP in a few seconds, and then pull the axe out and get to choppin'. The whole affair shouldn't take more than a minute, but (I hope) adds more depth and promotes thoughtful gameplay. Or you decide to throw caution to the wind and just deal with the penalties, which is a choice you can make.

The big advantage NPCs are going to have for now is going to be able to swim in any water. I don't have a way to prevent this right now but maybe after the 1.0 release I'll figure something out.
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:35 am

I'd like Beta 5 to roll in detecting whether or not you're wearing clothing, but boy-oh-boy is detecting that much, much harder than I anticipated. "Surely," says I, "Surely they have a function to return, at the very least, the type of armor worn in a particular slot." You know what they say about assuming. EDIT: There's two conditional functions, WornApparelHasKeywordCount and GetClothingValue that may do what I'm looking for.

There's also plain ol' WornApparelHasKeyword, which you can use with "ClothingBody," "ArmorCuirass," "Armor Boots," "ClothingFeet," etc. I think GetClothingValue just returns the monetary value of your clothing items, which may be useful for detecting ragged robes/roughspun tunic.

But yeah, not as easy as I had hoped either.
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Emma Copeland
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 pm

Just a note to say that I'd like to do a general release today or tomorrow if I can get some final things working. It would be out by now if it weren't for the college exam I have to take in the next hour.

I'd also like to make a call out to any beta testers to please submit feedback; I haven't gotten much yet.

Since this is a complex mod, I thought providing some in-world instruction might be a good thing. Here's a book you may find on the back shelf inside your favorite general goods shop. Give it a read if you have a few. It also has my general view of what I'd like to do with alcohol (always a contentious issue). Hope you enjoy.

Spoiler


Falkreath to Dawnstar

A Survivor's Guide to Skyrim


by Verick Gaerford
Explorer, Pioneer, and minor Adventurer

Penned with the assistance of Carius Harmevus on this day, 16th of Frostfall, 4E 118



It has been said that Skyrim herself is more dangerous than any man, mer, giant, or sabrecat within her boarders. Any who have felt the biting chill of The Pale or seen the frozen corpses upon the steps of High Hrothgar can attest to this. She takes the souls of the foolhardy, brave, astute, and unprepared with equal, enthusiastic swiftness.

My aim is to provide you with guidance on surviving the trials of Skyrim's harsh regions. My hope is that you, dear reader, will avoid the fate of those mentioned above. Wisdom is your only weapon against the cold, so arm yourself with it on the following pages. Even with this knowledge, however, I cannot guarantee your safety; one can only be so prepared. If such a guarentee was made by the merchant who sold you this book, you have my sincerest apologies.

Now without any further deviation, let us discuss the subject at hand.

SKYRIM AND HER ENVIRONS

Skyrim is a nation divided into territories known has Holds. Each Hold has unique environmental characteristics that aid or hinder those that travel through them. They are presented here, in order of increasing harshness and unpredictability.

Falkreath Hold
The area surrounding Falkreath is a temperate evergreen forest with relative warmth and refreshing waters. Days are comfortable even at sun's height, and nights are mild enough that one is wont to go star-gazing when the sky is clear. This Hold is truly the most hospitable in all of Skyrim.

Eastmarch
While Eastmarch is cooler than Falkreath due to being farther north, this Hold is lined with volcanic fissures that discharge great plumes of hot steam that keep the area warm enough to occupy without pause day or night, year-round.

The Rift
This Hold is home to a sprawling broadleaf mixed forest in Skyrim's southeast. Though it is positioned on Skyrim's southern border, its elevation, tree canopy, and humidity make this area much cooler than it may first appear. While a clear day in the Rift is almost as nice as Falkreath, the rain with high winds can sap a warrior's strength faster than he cares to admit. The Rift's many streams and lakes are pleasurable to swim in on sunny days.

The Reach
The Hold of Markarth sits along Skyrim's western border and is identified by a great river that runs through a deep, sheer valley. The winds that roll off the western mountains and into the valley are chilly most of the day. The night air combined with cold showers may prompt wise travelers to build a campfire, or seek shelter. The Reach's waters are quite cold, but should not pose a threat if one is diligent enough to dry off once the affair is over with.

Whiterun Hold
The heart of Skyrim is a cold tundra dotted by what few trees can manage to take root through the permafrost. Farmers toil tirelessly here to break ground and grow what little they can in the inches of soil afforded them. A well-dressed Nord may not fair badly here, but those unused to the climate will find themselves uncomfortable at all times. At night, the high winds across the open plains cut through fabric and flesh. It never snows in Whiterun (contrary to its name), but the ground remains cold enough to freeze rain the moment it strikes the earth. Whiterun's chilly brooks are usually shallow enough to not worry of becoming completely drenched.

Hjaalmarch
The tundra marshlands of Hjaalmarch are inhospitable to the unprepared. The ground is almost entirely permafrost, and the northern bogs have waters that remain at or below the freezing point. Set up camp early, and do not stray far from it. If night or dark clouds approach, build or seek shelter at once. Never attempt to swim in the waters here; always find a land bridge or a way around.

The Pale and Mountains
The frozen wastes of the Pale are life-threatening even under the best of circumstances. Make camp often. Avoid nightfall outdoors. If a blizzard strikes, you are in grave danger and your survival is measured in minutes. Seek shelter immediately. Better to be a living cave rat than a dead hero. The sheer winds and breath-freezing air of the mountains will push your survival abilities to their limits and beyond. Needless to say, the Sea of Ghosts lives up to its name. The same goes for the icy rivers that run east and south of Windhelm. The great port city of Winterhold has an inn with a roaring hearth on almost every street, ready to thaw the bones of weary travelers.

SURVIVING FROZEN WATERS

Sometimes, even after having done one's best to be careful near Skyrim's tretcherously frigid bodies of water, disaster can strike; a loose rock resulting in lost footing, or a fragile plate of ice on a frozen lake. Suddenly, you are submerged head-to-toe in water only barely above freezing. The body will go through a series of actions that may be shocking to the uninitiated, but by reviewing what will happen should this occur, one can mentally prepare for the occasion. With mental fortitude and some luck, one may even live to tell about it.

First, your body will involuntarily gasp deeply for air. When this happens, you will feel (paradoxically) as if the wind has been knocked out of you, unable to catch breath. You will feel completely without any stamina for physical exertion.

Second, you will experience extreme disorientation. Blurred or hazy vision should be expected.

Third, assuming you have not breathed in a lungful of freezing water, you should have regained enough of your senses to be able to find a way back on shore. This is a narrow window of opportunity, only measured in tens of seconds. Do not waste it!

After getting out of the water, it is imperative that you make camp or retreat to the nearest inn immediately, as your body has already become dangerously cold. Many have saved themselves from a watery death only to die on land minutes later.

If for some reason you are unable to bring yourself to shore quickly enough, you will find your limbs difficult to move until they become so numb that they stop responding entirely. Drowning at this point is the most likely outcome.

CAMPING IN THE WILDS

A well-chosen set of camping supplies can make one's journeys far less burdensome. In the worst of conditions, they can even save your life. Here are four things no pack should be without when traveling throughout Skyrim.

A basic fire kit is by far the most essential piece of gear to have in your pack. Carry enough wood to build several healthy campfires, along with a block of steel to strike against a stone or to run against the edge of your blade to produce a spark.

A bedroll can be constructed out of tanned leather, and lined with ample amounts of cotton. This will allow you to sleep as long as necessary in even freezing weather as long as the skies stay clear.

A survival tent can be constructed easily out of spare animal pelts and long sticks. While simple in appearance, this type of shelter can make a huge difference when one is forced to outlast freezing rains and blizzards in open country.

Finally, a small cooking pot built of cast iron can play an important role in staying warm and fed from the game and vegetation you may find along the way.

FOOD FOR THE JOURNEY

Not all foods are created equal. Some are much better suited to helping the body cope with traveling in the cold.

In general, hot soups, stews, and broths should be consumed when traveling long distances across cold terrain. They provide warmth from within, which helps prevent loss of warmth from without.

Snowberries, which are a common sight in the northern Holds, have also been rumored to aid in fending off the cold. Travelers of the northern lands swear by them, even though there is no alchemical proof one way or the other. Whether these small fruit actually provide a real boon, or if it is just a trick of the mind, I leave the reader to decide.

A special note about every Nord's favorite topic, brew. While one may be quick to believe that ale and mead bring fire to the belly, many who turn to stiff drink in order to avoid an icy death only hasten it in the end. That being said, mental and physical toughness play equal roles in your survival. A quick swig of ale might be exactly what you need to give you the determination to make a last push to safety. This is a choice you will have to make for yourself when the time comes.


CONCLUSION

If you have made it this far, congratulations! You are now much more prepared for the cold journey ahead. I hope you have found my instruction enlightening. Although this author hopes that you never need this book, I advise you to take it on your travels so that you may consult it whenever such a need arises.

Stay warm! Stay dry! Stay alert!

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Tiffany Castillo
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:19 am

noderunner,
As you mention, your stats could be negatively affected when theirs will not be. I can only assume you "[gave] up after a few days out of frustration" because you either kept dying or the gameplay was made too challenging / tiresome by some of the mods you mention. Either way it sounds like your "realism" mods were beating you over the head with penalties. I don't want to do that. What I want is for you to take a second to stop and think, "I'm hypothermic. I can't feel my fingers. Do I really want to take on that camp of bandits over the ridge? Or should I make camp, wait until dawn, and take them on when I'm warm and ready to fight?" So you pop a fire kit, maybe pop a tent if the weather is bad, heal up your EP in a few seconds, and then pull the axe out and get to choppin'. The whole affair shouldn't take more than a minute, but (I hope) adds more depth and promotes thoughtful gameplay. Or you decide to throw caution to the wind and just deal with the penalties, which is a choice you can make.

The big advantage NPCs are going to have for now is going to be able to swim in any water. I don't have a way to prevent this right now but maybe after the 1.0 release I'll figure something out.

Sometimes they were very obvious problems. For example, mods which make the lighting in dungeons a lot more realistic make it very difficult to see creatures and traps at a distance for the player. But NPC's didn't have much of a problem seeing the player or navigating the dungeons in the dark. It hurts immersion and feels unfair. But a lot of the time it is some kind of unforeseen situation that the mod author didn't design for, which happens often in a game this big and complex. What happens if I'm in a really long, drawn out battle with a dragon that has a lot of health up in the snowy mountains and I start losing body heat and getting penalized? Things like this tend to crop up time and time again. Like I said, I love the idea of all of these kinds of mods which add more depth and immersion to the gameplay. But often times they can make immersion worse when situations like this occur. But I'll be more than happy to give this mod a try and give you some feedback if you want.

Right now I'm doing a play through as a mage. It occurred to me that I should be able to warm myself up using flame spells. Any plans for something like that?
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 12:30 am

Right now I'm doing a play through as a mage. It occurred to me that I should be able to warm myself up using flame spells. Any plans for something like that?

Please seehttp://www.gamesas.com/topic/1345999-wip-deadly-exposure/page__view__findpost__p__20310591. There are several balance-related reasons why I don't want to do that, chief among them is establishing a resource dependency between EP and Magicka ("buying" EP with Magicka, a renewable resource that you can in turn "buy" with potions, which are usable at any time and can be bought with money. At that point you have "X Money == X EP"). I've tried my best to sever the link between money/character level and EP gain/loss.

Later I may introduce an alteration-based passive buff that slows EP loss over time (but does not restore it), similar to the way soups will function.

Test is over, time to mod!
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 6:54 am

A few questions for anyone who wants to reply:
  • The mod adds a new miscellaneous item to your inventory as soon as you load it, "Pack of Camping Gear". This drives the menu system for dropping and crafting new campsite items. The problem is that every time you "use" it, you get the default message of "You cannot equip this item". I cannot prevent this message from occurring. What I can do, is delete this string from the Game Settings so that you will never see it again, for anything. My question is, would anyone miss this error message? To me, it should be pretty obvious that I can't equip edit: a steel ingot or a vase.
  • Jeezy creezy there are a lot of mods coming out with "Deadly" in the title. Had I known, I would have never named it this. Would anyone mind if I changed the name? Any name suggestions?

Thanks
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how solid
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you can eat rabbit legs and glow dust.. is this a message that appears if you try to equip it as a weapon or armour? Because 1) that'd be awesome and 2) I don't think I've ever tried that either.

And how about Indecent Exposure? hehe no.
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Da Missz
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 5:19 am

Sorry, bad example. I obviously can't wear Steel Ingots or Silver Jugs.
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yermom
 
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Post » Thu May 24, 2012 8:40 am

is this mod compatable with portable campsite on the nexus?
heres a link to the mod:
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9935
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Heather Kush
 
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Post » Wed May 23, 2012 10:23 pm

Sorry, bad example. I obviously can't wear[..] Silver Jugs.
I don't know, you could silver plate them. :P

In any case, I'll grab the files as soon as possible. I've been meaning to ask you about it for beta testing for the last few days, but never really got around to it.
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.X chantelle .x Smith
 
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