I don't think your being comletely fair here - alot of the performance of the graphics depends on how good your computer and GPU are. Oblivion and Fallout3 don't lag for me in the least, at the highest resolution while running some big texture / weather mods. So from my perspective the game engine is fantastic overall, not the Highest level of graphics available in the gaming world, but thats a small price to pay to me for all the benefits we get from the rest of the game.

And even so, changing the graphics engine of a game (or building a new one) may be The most complex/difficult thing to do. It's why people like John Carmak are so respected, why IdTech5 is industry leading. It's certainly something to Want in a video game, but to make it sound like a modest request is greatly over-simplifying the challenge involved. If your running a PC and it's very laggy and choppy, it's time to get a better GPU - not tell the gaming companies that they need to dumb-down their software to meeting lower-end hardware requirements! Even on the consoles Fo3 is not terribly laggy, nor was Oblivion, and we can hope that it's even better with New Vegas once the tweaking and optimization is done.

Your right

http://nunetherlands.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/crysis-400px.jpg

Ok great, both games look amazing and both are coming to consoles, so I guess that further proves my point

Well they've just been working on frame rates and bugs in the last month or so after they finished the game itself, and they worked really hard to optimize the engine, so it should look a lot better than Fallout 3.

Meh, FO3 on my PC with lotsamods worked perfectly on ultra graphics + ini tweaking at the stable 40 FPS, and my computer isn't a beast of any sorts

Let's all be honest for just a moment and NOT hang our opinions on favorite developers or games....

The Gamebryo Engine is a glitchy mess that is easy to mod with. All the tweaks and updates in the world are not going to fix the issues with non-fixed objects having crap initial physics (just after game load) nor the myrid of other issues the Engine has wrong with it. It's long in the tooth, but easy as hell to develop games for and makes for an excellent platform that will extend the life of th egame due to long term moding platform for the game community.

I doubt it's going away quickly, but defending it by sluffing off it's technical flaws isn't fair to anyone involved in the debate.

The engine has a few small issues, but most engines do. The mod ability built into the engine starting with Morrowind is one of the key factors to the success of Bethesda's games in the long run. The Construction Set included with each new release ensures gamers are still playing those titles years later.

The engine also seems to scale fairly well - certainly better than a lot of other engines. I played FO3 initially on a 7-year old computer that had not been updated in that time. I ran it on Low settings, but it was smooth and looked pretty darn good. Thankfully I have a new powerhouse computer in preparation for New Vegas. On the PC the engine is smooth and lag free, even old PCs.

Comparing Bethesda's open world games to titles like Killzone 3 or Crysis 2 on consoles is silly. The requirements of a huge sandbox world where you can do and change just about anything, are much more demanding on the RAM of a console system, as it has to load in new textures and models constantly, and a lot of them. Killzone 3 and the like are made level by level. It is easily to optimize textures and framerates when you have a self-contained area, and know when a player can see something and how close they will get to it. In Fallout, the game is keeping track of every object you've ever dropped. Notice how bodies stay where they fall, and items dropped on the ground or moved stay that way? (At least for 3 in game days.) That takes a lot of memory, hence why save files get bigger.

For consoles, there is really only a few solutions if people playing on them want a truly butter-smooth framerate at all times. Either they reduce the sandbox and open world nature of the game, or they reduce the number of textures and their resolution (which seeing as how people already obsess over the fidelity of patches of dirt . . . .), or consoles can actually ship with some significant amounts of fast RAM so the systems don't have a major bottleneck in the pipeline. The latter solution would make consoles much more expensive, probably to the point of a gamer being better off buying a PC. If the PS3 had to launch at near 700 dollars this go round, just imagine how people would balk if the next Xbox or Playstation was sold for a 1000 dollars or more. Trust me, you can get an awesome PC for that amount.

So the Gamebryo Engine isn't bad, Bethesda is just pushing it fairly hard. And isn't the open world nature of their games what we love? I'm glad Obsidian is using the same engine and graphics, it should make for a much better game with them focusing on characters, quests, and locations. Obviously I hope they have tweaked the engine to improve it as much as they can or feel necessary, but it no way do I think the engine needs to be scrapped, for this game or any coming after.

The stuttering/lag in oblivion goty for ps3 really isn't that noticeable. Its actually worse on the 360.

oblivion goty never lagged for me. and i play it on the ps3

Never, as in not once?

I have to agree with him, I've never had that problem on Oblivion. And Fallout 3, standard and GOTY work just fine with the occasional lag occurance, IE once every few weeks.

Yea oblivion ps3 runs just fine. The stuttering/lag is the 360 version.

Fo3 it would not have become Game of the Year and won a ton of awards if the graphics were "laggy" or messed up as the poster described. Clearly they need a PC upgrade to handle the game. I've not seen the lag on the 360, but the ps/3 was smooth as silk as was the PC version.

I suspect with all the testing going on between Bethesda and Obsidian, even the 360 will be good. The game Definitely does not need a new graphics engine, and it would be totally impossible to change out something like that at this late stage in the game. Hoping for a stable, bug-free experience is the most we can realistically expect with 45 days left.

Miax

To me, the Gamebryo is a good engine. Anyone who says its 'the worst' should play a game with better story over top of the line graphics.

I think New Vegas is Fallout 3 vaslty improved based on what we see and know.(Technically speaking)

PREACH BRO PREACH.


the last thread regarding the engine was closed because it got bad in under 4 pages, unless you -expect- a dev to pop in and say so and so, the threads done as most of the points were given. I do like the OP spoke up and didnt seem like a total ass, allowing this to be discuss civil like

Just my Two cents.

Hallelujah!

Either MS/Sony will be shelling out megabucks selling that thing at a loss, or you're going to end up with a "console" that's almost as expensive as a PC.

the engine, in my eyes, is dated, but it still gets the job done and i still think Fallout 3 is one of the best looking games ive ever played. and i feel New Vegas will rank right up there when its released

The PS3 was what, $600 at release? That's MORE expensive than a PC!

im pretty sure a good high end PC these days is more than 600, unless im mistaken

No. A pc with those specs is more than $600.

At the time, yes, but certainly not anymore. In any case, you could get a very respectable PC for $600 whatever time you happen to be in.

You are not mistaken - the $600 PC's are typically appliances that do web/email, but certainly not high-end games. A Good graphics GPU today could run you $250-$300 bucks all by itself.

I would expect that a modern PC with a good monitor, 4Gigs mem, 1T of disk and a modern GPU would run at least $$1200 at a minimum for a good system. Add an SSD drive and shoot for top-end GPU and CPU, then $1500-$2000 is more realistic.

I build all my systems component-wise from stuff I buy at NewEgg so I'm used to the prices. There is still a huge price difference between a Strong PC and a PS/3, even at the old PS/3 prices.

my friend did this, buying all his appliances form NewEgg...built a very respectable machine that could run crysis and oblivion at full settings, for only 750

STOP POSING THESE TOPICS! Libidinous Barnacle, London Beer Lima Bravo (same person BTW) don't keep making new accounts about the engine.

/rant