Hello.

So I'm about half-way through the Dawnguard side with my Imperial warrior, and I'm loving alot of the
vampire stuff as i progress. It wouldn't fit my Imperial to join the vampires, and so I'm content with him
fighting against them.

But my Altmer mage would probably fit in better, he's a mage, a scholar and he is obsessed with learning
more about just about anything magical, alchemical, historical and whatnot. It would therefore fit him quite
well to join the vampires, to gain new abilities and learn about the life of the vampires.

There's just one snag... He's a good guy. And model for society. Arch-mage and a true hero.

So my question to you is, would I be able to play through the vampire-line without damaging his integrity
and moral obligation to his friends and family too much? I mean, you don't have to be evil to be a vampire,
Serana is a great example of thus, and it would be fit the character immensely well I think.

I realise that it may not be 100% possible, and that I might regret making the choice, but I want to hear the
opinions of those of you who have played through the vampire line. Do you have to be entirely evil???

There is no "good" or "evil". It depends on the point of view of the person. The Dawnguard sees the vampires as bad guys, and the vampires see the Dawnguard as bad guys and a nuisance because all they want to do is survive.

So, your character can still be a hero for the Volkihar, since he stops a tyrant from trying to block out the sun, which would plunge vampires into an all out war and a civil war as well.

The Volkihar Clan keep humans as cattle. It may well be a matter of necessity, but you can be fairly certain these human captives didn't volunteer to be food sources. They also convert ordinary folk into vampires against their will. Even if you don't participate in these conversions and even if you refuse to feed on the human captives, you're still guilty by association.

meh, just say your mage thought he needed more power to save nirn or something, vamplord could be the means to his end, fighting dragons or thalmor, or petty banditos.

Also its hard to say the vamps in castle volk are not evil, i mean they're pretty manipulative to each other, eat still living captives for [censored] and grins, and raid towns for...[censored] and grins

You can become a VL on the dawnguard side.

There's that too.

However, even if you choose the Volkihar side, you don't necessarily have to consider yourself "entirely evil." Just amoral. Like a scientist willing to cross ethical lines not out of malicious intent, but because that scientist fundamentally believes the advancement of science is for the "greater good" and the ends will always justify the means.

This. Your just a predator who needs to feed, vampires are above morality.

Is it evil for spider's to paralyze their victims and feed on them? Or lions devouring a lamb?

i suppose i can bite. Lions and spiders aren't really... sentient, they do what they can to survive. Vampires in the game are people, with thoughts, morals, and all that good stuff. So when they paralyze people to eat them for hours when they could have just drained them into neat little blood bottles, (which would be more effective, look at all the blood soaking into that table) then i'd assume they're just doing it for [censored] and grins...which is pretty evil.

Fixed.

In fairness, this isn't quite the same. Spiders don't choose to be spiders and lions don't choose to be lions. They just are. Blacklight's mage is considering making a conscious choice to become a vampire and to then join a clan of vampires. That frames things rather differently. That's why I'm suggesting he view it from an amoral standpoint. Complete and total objectivity with no consideration given as to what's considered "good" or what's considered "evil". Making the choice strictly because it's necessary to satisfy his mage's obsession with learning and understanding as much as humanly altmerly possible.

badass and evil aren't opposite, so i'll except your fixed smiley

Become a vampire AFTER you complete the quest on the Dawnguard side.

You could also do what I did with the Dark Brotherhood, join for the purpose of gaining allies to win the war against the Empire.

(In which my antihero really lucked out, it seemed)

Or, in this case, join the vampires so you can destroy Harkon from the inside.

They may be "people", but it doesn't make them humans. They are people who need to drink, to feed and survive. But I do agree with you on the blood bottles scenario. I wouldn't call it evil, merely unethical. Other, civilized vampires from the Imperial province has the decency to put their victims into a catatonic state, an eternal sleep so they can harvest blood from the slumbering donor as often as they like. Not to mention, some even privately use prison cells to drain and kill criminals, outcasts of society . . .dregs, if you will.

The Volkihar, on the other hand, is led by a madman who seeks to plunge the world into darkness, and invite more strife to the vampiric community. I wouldn't label all vampires as "bad", mostly just the ones in clan Volkihar and their barbaric tendencies to feed.

Eh, the vampires of the Elder Scroll universe who enslave and eat humans are evil.

There *ARE* good vampires, however.

Take for instance the father of the Gray Prince in Cyrodiil. He just ended up having horrible taste in spouses.

There's also the vampire advisor of Solitude.

She only feeds on the 'evil.'

Vampires aren't evil per se i suppose, the count of skingrad was/is a decent ruler, and was an ally to the coc during the oblivion crisis and the mages guilds questline. Although the volk vamps are pretty [censored], they murder each other, abuse their victims more than what is needed. Since that is the faction the op would be joining he would be associated with that particular [censored] clan, and not the more civilized cyrod clan

(even then vamps are just cursed people, the cures exist so their humanity could be reclaimed)

The Volkihar vampires might be considered evil (a feeble word used by those too blind, stupid or frightened to understand nuance), but your character certainly isn't. You spend the entirety of the questline making friends with a lonely vampire who is unhappy that her parents didn't love her well enough. Hardly Nosferatu.

Her mom stuffed her into a box and her dad wants to split her open and pour her blood over a bow. I think she has the right to be unhappy with both of them.

Sure. And she's been trapped in that box for several thousand years. She has the right to be stark raving insane.

Which is why it irritates me that she's this sad little puppy who talks to you about how she gets lonely and how we have to pat her on the shoulder and say "There, there." I didn't join the vampires to be the emotional crutch of an alleged vampire who doesn't even indicate that she has the slightest inclination to drink a human's blood. I joined so that I could set the world ablaze and close the sun.

That is a complaint a lot of people have. No matter what side you were on you were forced to care all about Serana.

I do agree that serana being on the dawnguard side made me scratch my head I think each side should of had their own npc volkihar has serana and dawnguard has someone else.

There is a part where she threatens the Dawnguard leader, saying "I'll remember that next time I am feeling hungry."

But that was it. Otherwise, Serana is there for her beauty. While she may be a good developed character, I still think they could of made her a bit better. It would be amazing and epic if at the end of the DLC on the Dawnguard side, Serana was just lying to the player the entire time and manipulating him with the sad story just so we can help her overthrow Harkon and make her leader of the Volkihar. It would make us truly, her "pet", as Harkon would say.

That would be an amazing twist if players did the questline on the Dawnguard side.

Plus on the vampire side serana says that she is going to have "words" with a certain thrall if he is wrong.

If this happened at the end of the dawnguard quest line that would be great! If she did that it would make me like her even more.

I was honestly expecting that to happen by the end. There was all that talk of 'trusting no one' and she was just so unnaturally normal. Surely, I thought, this is all part of some subtle act of hers. I was really excited for the reveal.

But no, she was just upset that her father valued an ideal more than her.

Have you noticed every Dawnguard thread invariably turns to being about Serana?

No, seriously, though I think that it was necessary to have Serana NOT be a crazy monster because it's one of the features of the Elder scrolls EVERYBODY has a good side.

The Falmer probably have a good side we haven't seen.

I actually really enjoyed the Falmer village in the lost vale because of all the little hints at an actual culture and society behind them. Baskets of ore and gems, potions and reagents, different huts that so clearly belonged to different members of their tribe. It reminded me of just how very nearly human these creatures still are, horrific chitinous aesthetic aside.

But what most bamboozled me about Serana is how after several thousand years of isolation and sensory deprivation she gets up, dusts herself off and carries on as if nothing happened. You don't spend four eras locked in a tomb without going a little crazy, believe me, I know.