Got excited and let down all in the same day... : Othor Games

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:05 am

At the time, the Nords had just been involved with a war against the Dunmer, and the Argonians are the slaves of the Dunmer.

Explain to me why those three races are aligned within the same faction again, exactly? I mean... they hate each other. I'm sure that's not the only thing, but that apparently is the biggest affront people see right now, the one that stands out the most, and makes many people worried about what else they messed up.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:10 am

You're not alone, all you have to do is check out the polls in this forum. The forum users are a perfect sample of the player base, and the player base overwhelmingly says NO to this approach.

Oh yeah, and.../agree

I completely agree.

» Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 am

At the time, the Nords had just been involved with a war against the Dunmer, and the Argonians are the slaves of the Dunmer.

Explain to me why those three races are aligned within the same faction again, exactly? I mean... they hate each other. I'm sure that's not the only thing, but that apparently is the biggest affront people see right now, the one that stands out the most, and makes many people worried about what else they messed up.

People who hate each other join up all the time if they feel like there's something they can gain from it. They might not trust them too far, and such alliances aren't necessarily stable, but they can happen long enough for an MMO's timeline to cover at least ("If Hitler invaded hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the devil in Parliament"). Besides, I could at least see Second Era Nords and Dunmer having a bit of grudging respect for each other at the very least. It's not perfect lore, and I'd have definitely preferred it to have been done another way, but it's at least salvageable. Now, if they start implying that they actually suddenly like each other, that'll be a problem, and a big one.

EDIT: I make a post mentioning hell and the devil and it's my 666th post. Perfect. :tongue:

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:22 am

Whoa, whoa, watch the strawman arguments. A proper argument is claiming that Russia should have allied themselves with germany after being invaded. No, they didn't, they went to war and together with the united western front CRUSHED the Nazis. So history has an example, and it's actually a counterexample to your claim.

The thing is, they should be at war right now, not united. And it shouldn't be a racial alliance either, but a regional one. What if I'm a Breton who lives in Black Marsh? Well, there are bretons who live in black marsh, but the game doesn't much care for them with this setup...

» Mon May 14, 2012 4:24 am

Whoa, whoa, watch the strawman arguments. A proper argument is claiming that Russia should have allied themselves with germany after being invaded. No, they didn't, they went to war and together with the united western front CRUSHED the Nazis. So history has an example, and it's actually a counterexample to your claim.

The anology was with the western allies deciding to ally with a Russia that right up to that point they believed would invade them given half a chance - or, perhaps, a Russia that joined with them out of necessity despite having been invaded by said allies a couple decades previously. It's a pairing that almost broke out into war the second the threat it was meant to defend from ended, but it still existed for a time. If this game manages to get that sort of distrustful agreement across correctly I'd love it - of course, that's certainly an important "if".

For that matter, I don't think there's a canonical war between any of those during the Second Era up to the point this game is set, and in fact the most recent one I can think of is the Nords showing up at Red Mountain, over 2000 years before the Second Era began... not that I don't doubt some combination of two of those three managed to end up in a fight at some point after that.

The thing is, they should be at war right now, not united. And it shouldn't be a racial alliance either, but a regional one. What if I'm a Breton who lives in Black Marsh? Well, there are bretons who live in black marsh, but the game doesn't much care for them with this setup...

Well, the strict association of races with provinces has been a bit of a problem in the series from the beginning (the first two games actually just showed you a map of the provinces and had your race based on which one you picked). So, while it is a problem, it's not a new one.

» Sun May 13, 2012 11:58 pm

Well, it's not that they're tied there, it's just that they're the majority there. Like Hispanics in Texas and California, and Caucasians in other states. It's not that they're the only race there, they're just the majority. God I wanna shoot myself in the foot for using ethnicity in my example when I typically refuse to acknowledge it...

A better idea would be to choose race, then faction separately. No, better yet... Race, and homeland. You can even leave your homeland if you don't agree with the faction there - you'd have the freedom to do so. Honestly, I loved TES because it was the first I saw to go Orcs =/= Evil. In fact, any race period is capable of any numeber of things. So to pretty much do a wide grouping of various races all together, rather than having it be ideologically driven or having it be regional alliances... it's just a bad idea to me. It goes against what I'm used to in TES, lore-wise.

» Mon May 14, 2012 4:18 am

People who hate each other join up all the time if they feel like there's something they can gain from it.

The Nords would get along better with the Orcs and Redguards, who aren't that far away. The Orc nation is rather small (if even existing at this time period), and I'd more expect the Redguards and Bretons to try to crush them to get more resources than team up for mutual preservation (kinda like they did in the early 4th Era, when the Septim Empire fell).

The whole 3-faction idea is crappy anyway, and the alliances just highlight the problem. I like playing Khajiit, but I don't like the Aldmeri Dominion and not all Khajiit would be aligned with them. Given the racial tension between Argonians and Dunmer, you'd have to expect some Argonians would refuse.

TES has never forced alliances based on character race. It would svck if TESO does that.

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:51 am

Aye, even just by region would be far better. By race alone? That's just... dumb...

» Mon May 14, 2012 5:00 am

Yes yes, mock our anger all you want, Maccy, but when the MMO bombs, and it likely will given that it's yet another WoW clone, we can simply sit back and go "we told you so". TES is a particular style of game we've grown to love, and this... this is way outside of that familiarity.

Who hasn't wanted to play a multiplayer Skyrim? I for one would love to have my own group, as I described above. It'd be ideal to have an MMO that's the first of its kind - a post-WoW MMO, where you have real time first-person combat, and it's more than just elite tweaking, but lots of skill that go into play. But sadly, all we were given was... well, yet another WoW. Such wasted potential...

Thta's cause it isnt made for you type of people. This game is being made for MMO fans first and foremost

» Mon May 14, 2012 7:17 am

A TES game made for people who aren't TES fans... are you seriously arguing that?

» Mon May 14, 2012 11:38 am

A TES game made for people who aren't TES fans... are you seriously arguing that?

No Im arguing that it is a TES mmo not made for fans of just singleplayer games, but for fans that also love MMOs

» Sun May 13, 2012 10:34 pm

No Im arguing that it is a TES mmo not made for fans of just singleplayer games, but for fans that also love MMOs

You DO realize that there are many genre's of mmo right? Saying that it is made for MMO "fans" pretty much dilutes your statement into a weightless opinion.

» Mon May 14, 2012 2:27 am

You DO realize that there are many genre's of mmo right? Saying that it is made for MMO "fans" pretty much dilutes your statement into a weightless opinion.

Let me rephrase that to Hotkey mmo

» Sun May 13, 2012 11:38 pm

Even many hotkey MMO fans are disappointed by this, though. We expected more from a game based on TES. It's just... lackluster and... well, normal looking.

» Mon May 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Even many hotkey MMO fans are disappointed by this, though. We expected more from a game based on TES. It's just... lackluster and... well, normal looking.

to be fair it is kind of hard to form a credible opinion just after the reveal with nothing but a leaked article and a small handful of screens

» Mon May 14, 2012 12:51 am

Let me rephrase that to Hotkey mmo

Ah. Well now, there are many many fans of that genre, however I'm pretty sure they already have their "drug of choice" so to say (WoW, SwToR, Tera, GW2, ect.). Why would they drop everything they have earned in those games (at least the ones that are out, or will be out by the time ES releases) and play THIS one? MMOs are a massive time commitment. Do you think that just the name and lore of the Elder Scrolls is enough to win over players while the core experience is the same? Not to mention that there are many players who are still fans of the particular genre, but are quickly growing tired of it for various reasons.

» Mon May 14, 2012 10:14 am

I started playing the Elder Scrolls with Morrowind. I didn't get to play Oblivion, but I'm loving Skyrim right now. So the thought of an Elder Scrolls MMO got me really excited. First person view action MMO in the lore of the Elder Scrolls? I'm SOL---

What do you mean, it's like every other boring generic MMO out there? What do you mean it laughs in the face of lore? What do you mean it'll feel nothing like an elder scrolls game?

...I hate to be a party pooper, but... I'm gonna have to pass, guys. The thought of teaming up with my friends to play a skyrim-like game excites me. World of Warcraft topple attempt #82 does not. Honestly... such wasted potential...

I mean, I could have had my own little power trio! My warrior buddy, my mage self, and our thief friend. Out, independant of factions and stuff like that, just a set of friendly mercs, you know? He makes the gear, I enchant it, thief makes the potions, we get by on our skills and everyone is credit to team... From the initial stealthy salvo of arrows, to the AoE nukes behind it, to the frenzied barbarian that knocks over what's left while we close in and pick the rest off...

I can't do any of that playing yet another of the same style of MMO that's out there. So much potential... Maybe I can hope for an online multiplayer component to ES6. I guess I'd have to settle for something like that...

Meaning by generic boring you mean all the World Of Warcraft clones and ripoffs that have been released over the years for trying to emulate the fluke success of its original ? The articles I've been reading so far are pointing to yet another WoW design formula and elminating everything good about TES to cater to the lowest common denominator and dumping its true fanbase, no player housing for example too hard as the article qouted? Player housing exists in several MMOs that predate WoW , Ultima Online, Everquest Series, Star Wars Galaxies, Darkfall, etc.

Developers have become lazy over the years since WoW by taking what originally made MMOs popular and stripping away most of the social and commuinity features and turn MMOs of the last 8 yrs which have deolved into instanced lobby loot slot machine playgrounds for the derps that can't handle player freedom. And from all the articles its leading it self towards failure if their following a WoW game design. For once I would like to see a well fianced studio make a hybrid Sandbox/Themepark instead of copying that same one game all the time, people are tired of it, if their not careful they will be in The Old Republic's shoes after a few months they need to make this MMO unique and stand out from everyone.

» Mon May 14, 2012 6:35 am

to be fair it is kind of hard to form a credible opinion just after the reveal with nothing but a leaked article and a small handful of screens

The same could be said to you, you know. Do try not to double talk me.

» Mon May 14, 2012 3:37 am

Thta's cause it isnt made for you type of people. This game is being made for MMO fans first and foremost

And every MMO released since WoW has failed to retain people due to it similar features and gameplay, people are tired of the same game but in a different skin, the articles so far have been pointing this game into the same mold as all the others fell on their ass. Why keep designing MMOs around the same one game? There are other features that predate WoW that are much suitable towards this game and would work better and keep the player freedom that the TES fans would expect in a MMO instead of a shallow contrived cash grab.