I started playing the Elder Scrolls with Morrowind. I didn't get to play Oblivion, but I'm loving Skyrim right now. So the thought of an Elder Scrolls MMO got me really excited. First person view action MMO in the lore of the Elder Scrolls? I'm SOL---

What do you mean, it's like every other boring generic MMO out there? What do you mean it laughs in the face of lore? What do you mean it'll feel nothing like an elder scrolls game?



...I hate to be a party pooper, but... I'm gonna have to pass, guys. The thought of teaming up with my friends to play a skyrim-like game excites me. World of Warcraft topple attempt #82 does not. Honestly... such wasted potential...

I mean, I could have had my own little power trio! My warrior buddy, my mage self, and our thief friend. Out, independant of factions and stuff like that, just a set of friendly mercs, you know? He makes the gear, I enchant it, thief makes the potions, we get by on our skills and everyone is credit to team... From the initial stealthy salvo of arrows, to the AoE nukes behind it, to the frenzied barbarian that knocks over what's left while we close in and pick the rest off...

I can't do any of that playing yet another of the same style of MMO that's out there. So much potential... Maybe I can hope for an online multiplayer component to ES6. I guess I'd have to settle for something like that...

You're not alone, all you have to do is check out the polls in this forum. The forum users are a perfect sample of the player base, and the player base overwhelmingly says NO to this approach.

Oh yeah, and.../agree

...Right. I'll assume you're not familiar with the concept of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias?

That's basically what everyone is here.

And they are becoming cancerous.

...could you not use that word? I'm getting very tired very quick of seeing it tossed around so casually as an insult by both sides. >_<

Yes yes, mock our anger all you want, Maccy, but when the MMO bombs, and it likely will given that it's yet another WoW clone, we can simply sit back and go "we told you so". TES is a particular style of game we've grown to love, and this... this is way outside of that familiarity.

Who hasn't wanted to play a multiplayer Skyrim? I for one would love to have my own group, as I described above. It'd be ideal to have an MMO that's the first of its kind - a post-WoW MMO, where you have real time first-person combat, and it's more than just elite tweaking, but lots of skill that go into play. But sadly, all we were given was... well, yet another WoW. Such wasted potential...

I'm sorry but these people are becoming so obnoxious and annoying that they are willing to slap a label over everything they see in this game! "It's a wow clone! It's got WoW mechanics!" even though we don't got any legitimate articles from sources saying otherwise. And I still doubt them all until I see it for myself.

Its not the dark/gritty full loot pvp/pve game everyone expected from a TES mmorpg but i am still excited for what it is .

I heard it was more like Guild Wars, honestly. It plays different, but... it's still the typical MMO you see out there. The same style of combat, the same style of interface, the same style of controls...

Am I wrong for wanting a TES MMO that plays like a TES game?

Oh of course I am, but if you can find another vocal localized group of people interested in TES, I would like to see them. Not everyone who heads to forums are die-hard fanatics, some are casuals and even haters and trolls. You widen the sample and the ratios remain the same. A self-selecting sample requires a neutral control. If the neutral control can't be vocalized than it is moot and you either have the choice of polling no-one or polling your available sample.

You know what? I'd be find if it's like Guild Wars. Why? Because we hadn't had a lot of games with the mechanics that GW has. Why? Because SWTOR, RIFT and others at this period tries to be like WoW.
I don't care about the combat, style or interface, just as long as it is smooth and functional and not [censored] repetitive or slow.

But were still talking about a game that has no absolute sources and everyone is basing their claims off of speculations or rumors.

And it doesn't sound like you ever will see it for yourself, when there is a ~19 page article in GI about it right now and yet you're still complaining about cancer and not being able to find legitimate info.

^ Casuals don't go to forums. Casuals don't care.

I think he means play it - to experience it first hand. I may not agree with MS in the issue, but don't take his words out of context either - let's keep civil about this. There is more to benefit from logical discussion than from name calling and gotcha's.

What 19 page article?

It's in the actual GI magazine, not the website.

I guess you missed the large, detailed article in game Informer?

GW2, having played the beta, is close enough to WoW mechanics at its core that it is in all outcomes a WoW clone. There are tweaks, but in no way is it a major overhaul of those systems. It's fine that you don't care about those things, but plenty of others do, as evidenced by these forums erupting in ire and vitriol over the information revealed earlier today. The difference between WoW's combat and GW2 is similar to the difference between Battlefield and Call of Duty, there are a lot of small differences, but the foundations are almost identical - they are still military first-person shooters. ESO SHOULD be a different sub-genre of the MMO market altogether, but it's not, it's the bog-standard.



But casuals are also not your "guaranteed buy" fan-base.

At least then there would be evidence of it being a bad game, rather than speculation. That's less "told you so" and more "happened to be right".


TES is several different, usually but not always related styles of games. Although I've very much enjoyed the gameplay (with some exceptions), it's really the world and the story that have linked them together in my mind, and what little is available seems to indicate that that's still there. You have different priorities and that's fine, so long as you allow me to want what I do - and there are some people (not you, at least, from what I've seen) around here who are determined not to do that.


Me? Skyrim was a fun game, but its mechanics don't seem like they'd translate too well into a multiplayer game; if nothing else than because how wildly imbalanced Elder Scrolls mechanics tend to be.



The proper response to that is not "become equally obnoxious and annoying".



"Vocal" is the key word there. People who have complaints tend to speak out more often, all else being equal, than those who are satisfied, since the latter have no particular reason to try and prod the developer into doing what they're already doing. And you can still do the poll, just remember where there might be a bias pulling it one way or another and not take it as absolute gospel.

Skyrim has its problems, of course. But that is simply to be addressed into making a game with abilities that are done with multiplayer in mind. Skyrim is not one of those. Think the gameplay of skyrim, but with the mechanics balanced for MMO play, and with a world full of people to team up with or wage war against.

good argument.

I must say though, that as long as the combat is smooth and skills are balanced then I am all for it. WoW or GW or not.

What got SWTOR bland and boring IMHO is the heavy focus on Storyline which isn't 'storyline' at all, without smoothing out animations, the qualities of the quest or outcomes. In fact, most of SWTOR is mainly effected through Dialogue. And I played the trial version; believe me. SWTOR's downfall wasn't because it was a WoW clone, but it was because it had slow pacing unbalanced combat system, too much focus on dialogue and storyline, and quests.

All rpgs with action bars are like wow; it makes sense, all those games use third person view and must press hotkeys to activate abilities

All shooters are clones of Doom; it makes sense, in all those games you aim and shoot stuff and it dies

All RTS are clones of starcraft; it makes sense, in all those games you gather ressources and build an army.

Skyrim is the same game as oblivion and is the same game as morrowind. It makes sense, all those games have swords, monsters and are in first person. Nevermind the differences though, THEY ARE THE SAME.

No, you're way overgeneralizing here, Nevvy. That's just borderline trollish - we need not have any of that kind of behavior from either side of this debate.

Sadly, it seems like that ship has, for the most part, sailed (and again, on both sides).

Then we need to police ourselves better. Most of us want a TES MMO - where we disagree is what was presented to us.

Some, like me, want one in the vein of a massively multiplayer Skyrim of sorts, a completely new style of MMO tailor made for the TES franchise and balanced with MMO style play in mind.
Others, such as yourself, were fine when what was actually presented was just the next evolution of WoW-style MMO games.

Where we differ is that approach - Many of us played MMOs and didn't like it, but love skyrim and would love a multiplayer-focused appraoch to a similar game.


Of course, EVERYONE should be up in arms about some things, such as the confirmed lore violations. We all bicker on the gameplay style right now, but the least we can do is unite to push for some corrections in their appraoch to lore.

The lore is definitely something I'll be watching closely and carefully, since that's the truly important part of the series to me, though I'm not sure I'd yet say that the lore has really been violated (and... well, even if it does it wouldn't be the first time there's been retconning in the Elder Scrolls series, just so long as the replacement still ends up being just as interesting and fitting to what's already there). There's still plenty of time and plenty of lore to give them a chance to prove themselves... or, of course, mess it up, which is certainly a possibility, but I'm a natural optimist so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Believe me, though, if they really do truly mess it up, I'll be right along with you in complaining about it.