The problem is that the game keeps scaling past level 20. You can go up to level 50, but you aren't going to get much, if anything, beyond the point where you are that will make your spells significantly better, just cheaper.

Compare that crazy thread where a guy was talking about getting 16,000 damage with a sword swing to the 75 damage your chain lighting will still be doing. Keep in mind, at that level, the scaled enemies really will have something like 10,000 HP.

Making damage scale, just like how the enemies scale, is only what makes sense. Otherwise, you are in a situation where you have to avoid leveling to avoid having the enemies outpace your stunted growth. When enemy health and toughness scale proportionately to your offensive power, then the game is balanced. Otherwise, it is not.

Disagree completely with OP
I've been playing on hardest difficulty with a mage.
First time speed run through (i didn't know wtf I was doing because I was going in blind) i was having a hell of a hard time because I couldn't find spells or get the right gear.
Second time through I learned to level to 5ish fast and get on the wagon straight to the college of winter and get my hands on a full set of decent beginner mage gear and spells.
Not to mention during the quest line you receive very useful items as quest rewards and fight other mages (who also have useful gear and materials).

Once I did that it is smooth sailing.
In some of the beginning levels 3 perk points into restoration at the right levels = 1/2 cost of healing yourself + 50% majika regen + cheaper wards
Destruction dual casting + impact = extremely potent combo + you can also drop rune spells.
Conjuring a Flame Atro costs half with only 1 perk point into the first Conjuration perk
Alteration magic allows for increased defense

Not to mention while you are doing this you can slowly level up your enchantment abilities until you become a complete boss and create a crazy set of double enchanted armor that you can equip where you have minimal costs to casting spells and you are throwing double summons that last twice as long and blasting dragons like there is no tomorrow. Not only that you can also make your mage companion completely boss equips and by the end of it you have a mini army running around wiping the floor with dragons in your heavily enchanted dragonscale armor.

Early game sure playing a warrior is a lot easier but Imo a uber late game mage is completely ridiculous. You become a demi god with abilities to do w.e. the hell you want short of self-reviving
And yeah i too am a little sad that we can't custom build spells but considering how game breaking that was in Oblivion i can see why they took it out. As cool as it may sound 1 shotting a dragon with your super fireball you crafted it gets boring fast and ruins replay-ability.


Also a lot of times people always seem to forget about shouts.
Use them people. Think of it as a free badass spell every few seconds. Blasting enemies back and/or freezing them buys you time to regen magika so make sure to have them ready in hairy situations.

Isn't that the simple solution then? Play on a lower difficulty level.

I always find it silly and odd when people punish themselves with the "highest" difficulty and then act surprised when it is actually hard.
A game is not balanced around the hardest difficulty setting, it's balanced around NORMAL, ALWAYS...
Hence if you find it TOO easy on Normal, then you go one or two steps higher.

In this game perhaps Pure mage is the hardest on Master difficulty over lets say a pure warrior class, FINE, then play on expert level and you'd have the same challenge as a warrior on Master.

Seriously people it's a fricken single player game, who are you trying to show off for?

Playing on the hardest difficulty setting and thinking it's going to be easy is just plain dumb, cause if it were to be easy, then the game has zero challenge to begin with.
Pure mage is the hardest thing you can do on master difficulty so if you can handle it your personal e-peen is now really big and no one knows about it, get real people.

I play games to get some challenge but never so it's frustrating, I find it too easy on the game mode I'm playing as a warrior right now and might up the difficulty to suit it till it's a challenge but not so it's frustrating.
I play video games for fun, but hey that's just me.

For the people that say, "you shouldn't be forced to invest in other mage specific areas as a PURE MAGE, like conjuration.
Are you FN serious? Then what the hell are you suppose to do in the game as a pure mage? You can't use armors, bow, one-hand, sneak(perhaps), two-hand, smithing, etc etc.
if a PURE, read PURE mage then you ARE suppose to focus only on mage areas.
Since you only have 6 specific ones, such as illusion, alt, rest, dest, conj and enchantment, and you can get 50 perks or more, voila now you are a PURE mage.

Also why NOT use conjuration, is it not a PURE mage ability? Thinking you can only go destruction and not invest in the categories that help keep you alive, I'm sorry to say is plain ignorant and borderline imbecile status.
You'd need Oakflesh shield to make up for not having armor at all, you'd need 50% extra healing to heal yourself fast and with less cost, you'd need the 50% extra magicka regeneration. You'd need a summoned creature to alleviate the focus of 5 baddies trying to hack you to pieces.
It's called logic. If you only used destruction you'd have 35 extra perks unspent. Also don't say but I can spend them somewhere else, tell me WHERE if you are a PURE MAGE.
Using heavy armor or smithing or one-hand etc then you are not mage focused.

If you find it impossible to play on Master then lower the FN difficulty, is there a person there with a gun forcing you to suffer? Play on expert and then find a great challenge but still fun and you can do more damage.

I agree with you totally. The main complaint in this game is that they removed varying styles to magic and seem to basically force you into certain trees to be a mage in this game. Mage tank combo is super effective and I love it. I hate the conjuration tree and they removed all the options to vary the type of mage you wanted to roleplay, ie Necromancer, Summoner, Priest, etc. All that has been condensed into very effective but limited choices. That ruins replay.

Secondly, now that I have passed into my 50's there is no option on the type of spell you can use. I can choose only 4 that are even remotely effective. Runes are now useless. Wards are useless. Pets are uselss, except Necro. My resists are all maxed at 85%. My mana cast cost is 0 for all my spells. The only way for any of the CC spells to land is if I dualcast and even then only one spell works regularly. Summoned Weapons don't scratch trash mobs. Some of my shouts have completely become useless

Its like playing a game backwards. The more you play the less abilities you get. Am I having fun, YES!. Do I want to go and play again, not really. At least till mods come out. Hope there will be a magic expansion DLC.

chronobomb
can you please tell how get 0 magic cost for spells , and 85% resistances?
Exactly what gear how you ench where from etc , please ?

Has anybody already mentioned that magic on it's own is quite uncommon in Skyrim? There's alot more emphasis on physical combat. Ofcourse, this shouldn't force you to always pick a warrior-esque character, but it justifies the game design a bit, including the lack of spellcrafting. But i agree, it could've been a bit more elaborate. I never play full mage, but i miss spells like Feather and Waterwalking.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1266212-2469-armor-3199-damage-using-smithing-alchemy-enchanting-only-31-perks/page__hl__armor+statson these forums. You actually don't have to get that much armor as all damage resists cap at 85%. The exact comparison of damage vs resists has not been established but it seems I hit it already at 1000 armor. My guess is 10 armor equals 0.85 dmg resist from experince, but I have not actually done trials. Nor have I maxed out those three trees.

But you will have to master 4 trees: Heavy armor(important for stagger resist), Master Smith, Master Enchanter and Master Alchemist.


Hope that helps guide your path. What ever you do, make sure you establish your magic skills before leveling those skills. Or you will be nerfed badly in the dmg department. Even low level enchanter can drop mana cost very,very,very low. Dual Enchantment is bugged atm, so don't waste the time trying to get to 100 yet. True 85% resists without alchemy will then be possible. Master smith is great, but will kill your fun if you power your way to dragon scale. I leveled about 2-3 a level and it kept the gear fresh and intersting and drops useful.

Alchemy is super useful. Its the only damage buff we get is with posions. Paralyzing/freeze/CC a boss, magic debuff him 100% with poison and then burn him down.

You will be able to get to 80 with this build, although your useful abilities shrinks a lot after 50.

Have you noticed that mages aren't very popular in the world of Skyrim. They are blamed for the great collapse.

Exactly. Unpopular is the better word

I've played a warrior, 2-dagger assassin, and a mage so far. Will be dropping the mage - once you run out of mana, you're borked. 2-dagger assassin just does not do enough damage in normal circumstances. Warrior was easiest so far.

Am rerolling though, to a Bosmer for the 50% on both disease and poison, and due to the stamina issues with heavy armour, will be rolling my fairly stealthy warrior with light armour, but with 1-hander plus shield.

I spent most of my 1-25 levels using my dual lightning bolt to kill enemies. The problem with it is that after you kill 1 enemy, you have no magicka left (all mage equipment, all but one level used for magicka upgrade).

You are forced to either exaust 20 magicka potions very quickly, or find some other way to do damage. Your magicka regen always svcks when you are in combat, regardless of your magicka regen equipment, although it regenerates very quickly if you run away.

My proof that destruction spells svck is this: At level 25 my maxed lightning damage mage found that killing enemies was much easier to accomplish by drawing out his untrained two handed sword.

That is just wrong. There is no argument to counter this. Destruction magic is broke.

Well duh if you play that way its gonna seem broke.
Like many people said already you have to learn2play and youaredoingitwrong.
1. Lightning def isn't the best beginning dps spell. Its designed for mage vs mage combat. If you are using it on monsters or melee fighters you are doing it wrong.
2. OBVIOUSLY if you lvl from 1-25 and you only put one damn level into magicka your freaking magicka amount is gonna svck. Again learn how to play a mage.
Putting levels into health and stamina =/= playing mage. Its called playing a warrior. If you have points into mage skill perks that that is called playing a hybrid so the minute you run out of magicka you should be using other means by which to do damage considering you have the health and stamina to support it.
3. If you are playing a mage use your brain. Why the hell would you just mindlessly just spam the same beginner spell over and over again? You have alteration, conjuration, illusion, restoration to use as well as destruction.
Throw down some zombie summons or atros to increase your dps + tank for while you frenzy some of the enemy to cause chaos confusion. Pop an alteration spell to increase your defense or use a ward to block any incoming mage attacks and start duel blasting enemies with destruction or setting down runes. Fire for monsters, Ice for fast moving melee, and Lightening for mages. Feeling a bit too much pressure? Blow them away or freeze them with a shout. Seriously.

Mindlessly spam duel beginner lightening and say you are playing a pure mage = epic fail
Putting one level into magicka and complaining about lack of magicka = epic fail

Honestly I really don't care how you play your game yourself but don't go around calling a pure mage playthrough difficult or impossible or broken just because you are doing it completely wrong.

You didn't read my post. You are quoting things I did wrong that I didn't. I put all but one level into magicka. Please read.

I am not playing pure mage, or claiming all magic is broke. Just destruction.

Learn to read.

Ok fine I misread.
But that doesn't change the fact that the only spell you used is duel lightening bolt and you say destruction is broken.
If you are using duel lightening or duel any spell with impact perk you shouldn't be having problems.

I choose lightning bolt instead of higher level spells because of its efficiency. I can't do more dps in a more effiencient way than I am doing. Except maybe burning enemies and running away to wait for them to die, but I don't want to do this. I use my dual lightning bolt, watch my opponent stagger, use this time to regen some magicka, shoot again.

It is quite possible to use other magic instead to get by. My fire summons does well for a long time.

But think about this: If two handed swords failed to do proper DPS, would you then tell me its fine the way it is, just use one-handed swords?

Well, ok, but it would be nice if two handed swords worked. This is my argument as to why destruction should work. Sure, I could use other magic schools, but I shouldn't have to.

But your view on destruction is too narrow. Destruction has a lot of versatility this time. You have rune spells, cloak spells (surround yourself with fire/frost/shock and deal damage to enemies that are in melee range), wall spells (cast wall of fire/frost/shock between you and your enemies), AOE spells around caster...

If you plan on using destruction seriously, you've got to use more weapons than simply spaming sparks on everything that moves. Try using runes at least, since they are apprentice level spells and shouldn't cost too much.

Also, invest on alchemy to have magicka potions ready.

I didnt like the oblivion spell system at all , sure there were lot sof spells and you could create your own but they bored me because they werent fun to use.

Oblivion magic was all about creating what were basically cheating/expliot spells .

too early for me to say in skyrim but the spells are definitly fun to use. I have a feeling skyrim magic is better.

to the OP:

I really can't tell if you are trolling or not. I am playing a pure mage dark elf and have no problems on default difficulty. Don't bother casting a spell if you don't have the associated 50% off perk for it, if you stick with only those you have the perk for they are not overly expensive, especially with a few enchantments and level points in magic. At early levels I had daggers to fall back on (like all npc mages do), then a staff later on, now I very rarely run out of magicka. If you have the dual wielding stun perk you can stunlock high level enemies for ages. A few magika potions (not that expensive if you don't craft them, and easy to make if you do) and you can get through tougher fights.

As for having no armour... thats basicly the point of the ward and defensive alteration spells. Again put in perks and wards become sources of magic while even stoneskin becomes powerful.

Being a mage does require more thought than "wade in and hit things", I often run away to replenish magic often setting runes while I do. When fighting another mage dodge their attacks and use cover. Also use your summons intelligently. If your oponent is only throwing fire around, use a fire antronarch and just stand back and watch. If you start out a fight by killing a powerful spellcaster then resurect him. If things get too tough then you have invisibility to fall back on, cast it and run to a safe place.

I was not intending on playing a pure mage but had so much fun with it that I've stuck to it. And no I did not use any kind of special leveling technique, just been using what comes naturally (which is mostly destruction magic, restoration, conjuration and alteration in that order for my playstyle).

skyrim magic is good fun and so on , BUT IT DOESNT scale !!!! i wana use my first spell flame thing spark and so on and not shooting balls ... but it does not scale , its so lowwwwwwww dmg .....

To the original poster: Sounds like you just svck. I have a mage who can solo mammoths without even taking dmg or moving. You just use Destruction spells it stuns them every single time you hit them 100% chance and costs 11 mana a cast. Your just doing it wrong.

From my experience you only go out of mana casting AoE spells an Melee cant sustain AoE attacks either so don't see what your QQing about.

That doesn't really make sense. If someone *just* leveled two handed and had no armor skill whatsoever he would probably complain about how much he was dieing and people would rightly tell him he has to do more than one thing. Destruction does do damage and plenty of it if used right but it is not the be all and end of of magic.

Out of Magicka, you can still Staff.

Removing spellcrafting, bleh, ya. But it slightly made up for with the dual-casting method.

I agree. Saying that folks should rely on conjuration ignores the "do what you want" mantra of TES. The only conjuration spell I've seen to buy in Riverwood is a reanimate spell. I should be forced to be a necromancer because I want to level a mage? To me that really limits roleplaying. "You can't play a caster unless you're willing to summon daedra or undead" puts too much moral spin on our characters. If dual wielding swords did low damage would fighters appreciate being told that they should use conjuration to supplement their damage? I don't think so. I agree that you need to use your full arsenal of different types of destruction spells, not just spam single-target elemental damage--and that you're going to need to use other skills (alteration, armor, restoration, alchemy) to protect and heal yourself, but with destruction spells in two hands--and a bit of strategy--your damage should be competitive with the guy with two swords in his hands. If anything, the mage should do more damage because of their vulnerability due to being in danger of running out of mana and constantly having to buy higher level spells.

They did some nice things with magic in Skyrim--mostly the new ways of casting--but loss of spell effects like unlock and of spellcrafting and poor scaling--really undermine the positives. I also think in his eagerness to avoid being "spreadsheety" Todd overlooked that there have traditionally been both spreadsheety (wizards) and more spontaneous casters (sorcerers). A lot of players of magic users favor the more calculating wizard approach. I was in wait and see mode regarding most of the gameplay changes prior to release, but now view spellcrafting as really needed. Having the amount of damage done by a spell adequately to scale with skill is a possible alternative. "You have to be a conjurer If you want to be a mage" is unacceptable.

Wait, you want to be a pure mage, but wish to reject an entire school of magic? This really doesn't make much sense.

Also, as said above, this is a 'classless' game. There is no such thing as a pure mage, pure warrior, etc. Even Gandalf used a sword, deal with it, its a game. In most RPG games, mages are extremely squishy until they get to higher levels, so you'll need to either have your character learn to swing a sword, or hire/marry a companion to swing the sword for you.

You miss the point. If his two handed sword did a poor job at killing when you hit something, there would definetly be a problem. This is my problem with destruction. I am not insisting that my destruction spells do a poor job of defending me. (although they do exhaust your mana quickly and leave you defensless, which is a further argument as to why destruction should be more effective at killing than it is).