Using enchantment to completely negate the magicka system is NOT a valid way of fixing the awful magic system, not to mention, it still doesn't allow Illusions to scale effectively and not just become useless.

And having to drink potions to up your damage is just stupid. I mean, most people don't like having to run around and brew potions and constantly shovel consumables in their mouth in order to have a functional character, there is a reason why those sorts of systems have gone damn near extinct in the last decade of gaming.

Bethesda SHOULD fix spellcasting to make it more rewarding and they SHOULD fix enchantment to not completely trump every other skill in yet another game. (Yes, Enchantment was already the godmode skill in Morrowind)

Good thing wearing my Destruction Robes doesn't unequip my Circlet of Destruction. It's things like this that would make me /facepalm at multiple slots being covered by a single piece of gear. Better gear should be better, not worse because its eating multiple slots with no benefits.

i dont know why people have such a problem with people wanting change to mages. first a mage should be high damage either burst or dps as a mage is suppost to be a glass cannon not a glass pop gun
second i should not have to abuse a broken system just to play a mage if i wanted to have spells that dont cost mana and just stun lock a mob so i dont have to worry about getting hit thats already there for people on pc its ~ tgm
now im on pc and there are mods that help fix the problem but those on ps3 or xbox are screwed
third guess what if they fix the low damage and high cost of spells you can still enchant and what not to get to your zero mana cost sorry i dont find it fun to sit there spam casting fireball at a stun locked mob for three mins.

Here is a great mod that fixes almost everything wrong with destruction besides the lack of spells

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=382

If ppl would not abuse the alchemy/enchant/smithing loop a normal char using vendor made smithing pots and using smithing gear enchanted by vendor made enchanting pots would be able to make weapons a bit more hard hitting that the expert destruction spells. So it was all balanced.

If you did not use any alchemy/echant/meele gear and any smithing/enchanting/meelle potions you would still be able to make hard hitting weapons but lower dmg that destruction spells.
If you used the standard gear and pots you would make a bit better hitting gear than a non-poted mage.
If both you and a mage use the loop then we got a draw because both parties have the same dmg power. The mage just needs to drink pots when needed while the meele has passive buffs.
Still if the mage uses poison he can outgrow the meele dmg range by far ( not taking into account orc racial ,bugged marksman pot and doing sneak attacks )

It's not exploiting, it's just broken imho.

Your linking to a destruction nerf mod

Dual casting Now takes 3 times as long as one handed version to cast.Effect increased from 2.2 to 3.0 * normal

So if a spell does 100 dmg by one hand and takes 100 mana for example.

2xsingle hand spell = 200dmg , 200mana , 1 sec
dualcast = 300 dmg, 280mana, 3 sec

so in 3 seconds you gonna do 600dmg for 600 mana or 300 dmg for 280 mana. Yes its more mana efficient but the drop in dmg and slow casting is just a nerf

Try this one http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611 made by a member, the mod thread is in the mod section.

everyone on PC will be happy

seriously, why can't Beth. just patch this? This is a glaring flaw that affects all players and shouldn't be the job of a modder to fix.
the vision of a modder is to ADD the game, not fix oversights by the developing company.

furthermore, it puts people on consoles at a severe disadvantage. Yes, we can't have mods on Consoles, that's our burden to carry, but we should be able to at least expect the developing company to give us a product that works as it should, or at least respond to complaints.

we live in an age where a game can be patched at any time, thus giving developers more leniancy on development brainfarts.
if you're going to make us your de-facto game testers, at least respond to what we find.

really odd since you can't wear a hood. I wonder if you can wear a circlet with a helmet and they are just bugged as not being a slot or something.

So are you saying that the Arch-Mage's robes are actually good enough to keep throughout the game?

Optimal pure mage setup for destro spells is arch-mage robes and ring+neck+circlet with 25-27% cost reduce each. Dont even need those -50% perks. Also can the same bunch of whiners already shut up about "pure mages not being viable"? Either you guys dont have 40+ level pure mage or you svck at playing it. Pure mage damage=destruction+illusion+conjuration. If you are only using destro to kill stuff you are failing horribly as a mage. Good guide btw, OP.

http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

I prefer to pursue the ideal.

add: very informative btw, I will give you that and a +1 for you, but you aren't solving anything about the destruction. We have less option and choice if we want to play a destruction mage.

WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING MAGIC ISNT BROKEN BY SHOWING HOW ENCAHNTING/ ALCHEMY IS REQUIRED TO FIX IT?!

the more super-elite-pwnzers workarounds you devise, the more you prove how imbalanced magic is. i can murder scores of centurions with nothing but sneak and 2 perks in one-handed, but i cant kill a bandit without chugging some mana potions... or heavily investing in a skill that is on the other end of the broken spectrum.

and the current popularity of online multiplayer has not suddenly given developers the excuse to not provide a fair challenge in single player. magic needs to be viable on its own, without abusing crafting or conjuration; im not saying it needs to be easy, but we should be able to kill a few a low-level enemies without 5 mana potions. we need more mana (magicka, whatever).... thats really it. maybe even gimp some of the higher level spells; we should have to strategically balance our various spell effects in a fight to fully utilize our mana bar, not down some pots/ abuse enchanting and cast fireball over and over.

Yes destruction ALONE is weaker as a dps skill compared to 1h/2h/archery and to make it work you need very specific gear and you need to put atleast 80 stats to magicka. But with the right perks and gear pure mage is not only viable, it is very strong. The way I play my mage is that I roll in with my muffled shoes(so I tend to get the jump), usually frenzy the mobs, let my 2 master necromancer thralls cause mass destruction while I pick the dangerous targets off with thunderbolt. If melee tries to swarm me, i just calm them. Very fun, easy and usually faster compared to for example my archer.

destruction should as the name would suggest be the main damage form for a mage if you want to take it or not but the only way to use a destruction mage is to use enchanting and pots to fix the problem with them but to keep saying that to be a destruction mage you need to also be enchanter, alchemist, necromancer/conjurer, illusionist, and Alterationist to make it work
so your saying that not broken
so if to be a warrior you had to spec in 1h, 2h, block, heavy armor, light armor, smithing and enchanting to make it work would that not be broken?
mage as it stands might as well been a premade class you dont have a choice if you want to be a destruction mage unless you count alteration or Restoration cause that pretty much the only choice you have as a destruction mage cause you need enchanting, conjuration, illusion, and alchemist to make it work

Listen to this man students, for he has gone the path of not perking mana reducing perks, saving the pure mage from buying a BUNCH of boring perks that don't really do anything. Indeed, if you level enchanting first you can avoid buying many mana reducing perks.

I am currently doing this myself: http://skyrimcalculator.com/#4070
By doing this and enchanting many sets of jewelry combinations (including the headgear jewelry whatever its called) you'll be able to utilize all parts of being a pure mage.
For example I'm an extremely heavy illusion and destruction user, but I do plan to use permanent flame atronachs later on, maybe. One extra set that would make sense for me (when I actually have the spells available) would be conjuration and alteration. What I would do is equip this set before starting a challenging fight to summon atronachs and dual-cast a potion assisted long-duration Dragonskin, which would last nearly 5 minutes.

Then switch back to my illusion/destruction set, stealth up and walk in let them clump up on summons,frenzy everything in the room, then pop a destruction potion and firestorm everything back to oblivion. Except my flame atronach. Cause shes immune to it.

Other things to do with the saved perk points would be to do other cool stuff you wanted to do like unlock finishing moves with one-handed, or unlock intimidation in the speech tree.

Nobody's saying that the other mage skills are underpowered. It's destruction that's the problem, because its damage is static and doesn't scale. Why bother with destruction when my summons are far better than anything I can throw?

I thought this was something new, but it isn't. I don't agree with potion usage as a valid way to increase damage. Any way you see it, damage with spells is crippled and needs to be passive or native. Not through potions.

Ranger/melee doesnt have to rely on crafting just to be viable on higher level. Take bow users, for example: bow damage scales to +100% at skill lvl 100, while mage perks only give you +60% for all elements. Without any crafting, bow damage increase as you got your hand onto better bows and arrows. Theoretically, highest level bow without crafting is equal to master level spell, but as everyone knows mage practically cant use master spells in dungeons, so you have to content with incinerate & its shock equivalent. My friends all tell they have to drop smithing/enchanting/alch on higher level to make the game more changeling, but I know I cant do that with my mage.

In short, other damage dealing trees are viable for 45-50 and up. Destruction is not. Dont think Bes care though.

This thread brings nothing new to the table. Relying on blatant design flaw isnt fun. At all.

Exactly.
But they forget that the melee that that is investing in both smithing and enchanting AND alchemy, is doing two to three times more work with secondary skills to become as powerful as they get.
And then, Melee is utterly overpowered and secondary skills destroys the game for them in my opinion.

I am shelfing my dual wield orc I invested 50 hours in, atleast for a while. Im not even using Enchanting, only smithing and Im doing just way too much damage.
I am forced to play on master to have any fun, and on Mastery Im still one shotting giants. Its redicilous. Again, thats without enchants, but using legendary daedric weapons, dual wield, with 75 in one hand and all the damage perks.
Maybe we ARE supposed to be overpowered, which is ok. But then I do want some content, not just dragons, to put up a fight.

I miss the daedra from Oblivian, they did put up a fight every time.
I want more of that, very hard enemies that is not just entereing my view once per hour or two.

Im hoping the DLC will be hard as nails and not for the common players out there.
But something for the hardcoe fans.
Also, most people actually want a challenge, its maybe 10% of the player base that prefer to play on an easy level. Im sure 90% prefer to be forced to run and rething, have strategy in their fights and at times feel fear.

Nobody is arguing that conjuration is the strong school of magic and so is illusion. Problem is not everyone likes to play warlock. That is basically what you say ... right way to play pure mage in Skyrim is to use pets and heavy cc with a hint of destruction spells = warlock.

It's situation where RP is screwing your one viable mage build.

Nice post OP. But all that pretty much proves that there is serious problems with the current system.
Just because there is a zero mana cost exploit out there doen't mean that destruction scales fine.
The whole world scales according to characters level, yet personal magic power doesn't. It's simply wrong.

After maxing and perking smithing/enchants/alchemy and getting your meele/ranged skill to +100% (perk and skill lvl) you can make:

Daedric Bow: 195 Damage
Daedric Dagger: 171 Damage
Daedric Two Handed Sword: 210 Damage
Daedric One Handed Sword: 180 Damage

This are values that you get without wearing meele/ranged enchanted gear.

So a meele and ranged your talking about has to max and perk additionaly smithing,enchanting an alchemy to do nearly 200dmg while a mage with just pure destruction maxed and perked can dish the same amount of damage with a thunderbolt. So you got it wrong, let me fix it

Those daggers and one handed weapons are OTT. Far to close to the two handed options, should be much weaker (or 2H and bow higher, but probably that would cause issue).

Those values are accesible by having 100% skill and and at least 25 perks total in alechmy/smithing/enchanting/meele or ranged and using synergies (but not the positive loop exploit) of alchemy/enchanting , enchanting/alchemy , alchemy/smithing and echanting/smithing. You need so much work and perks to reach the same level of dmg as a dualcasting destruction mage who only needs to max one skill tree with only from 3 to 15 perks invested.