Using arrows against Dwemer constructs and ghosts? If an enemy can use a Hide Shield to deflect your arrows, surely a Dwemer Centurion should be pretty much completely immune? And Ghosts being Ghosts, surely they should pull a DImholt King on Legolas and have them go straight through?

I'm a big RPer and while I understand why it's not the case, it'd be nice to see the only things being particularly effective against Dwemer machines being Maces and 2H weapons, whereas Ghosts should only really be damaged by Magic or the enchantable elemental damage on weapons. It's a shame Skyrim doesn't have resistances against different types of damage (apart from generic magic resistance, given to too few and far between). IIRC even the earliest Fallouts had some form of it, e.g. laser weapons simply bouncing off enclave power armor in FO2.

If a ghost is immune to arrows what makes you think a fireball is going to hurt it? Hell if you're an avid RP'er as you claim, how the hell do you kill that which has no life?

Hey, I know what u mean man, I'v killed a dwemer centurion with 2 ebony arrows and i'm thinking "isnt that thing made of metal?"

Hmm, let's think about that. An ordinary solid, metal object vs magic... Maybe because a fireball is magic?

With Anduril of course!

Hahaha massive +1s to the two posters before me.

For clarification, what I was talking about in the OP and would love to see is more discrimination between the different weapon types. It seems Bethesda can't even separate different weapons properly with just what they've already put in the game - e.g. the Deflect Arrows perk giving you 80% damage reduction against EVERYTHING rather than just arrows!

Off the top of my head, some nice figures would have been something like 85% physical damage reduction for ghosts, and something like the normal 30% magic resist for Dwemer constructs (or maybe 50% frost resist, 30% fire resist, and no shock resistance for even more interesting results) with an additional 60% archery damage reduction and 20% one handed damage reduction.

But you can cut off there heads, and they even have blood!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rm6ZeSnje0

And somehow, magically, their ghostly gear turns normal and you can loot it and wear it just like anything else.

Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that!

You mean other than the gravitational pull of the moon?

Arrows are projectiles that impart kinetic energy into their targets. Said energy causes damage to their structure. Metal is perforated, flesh is cut, bone is broken. No matter what the target is made of, it is still suffers physical damage. I agree that using an iron-tipped arrow against something made of Dwemer metal would hardly seem likely to do it harm. OTOH an ebony-tipped arrow certainly beats Dwemer in the hierarchy of ES metals. Of course that would rip right through the outer shell of a construct and drive into its delicate inner workings, shattering gears, pipes, chains, etc... This is of course just looking at the base metals themselves. We have not even considered the Archery perks that allow a person to (magically?) enhance the damage they do with bows, strike at critical areas, and so forth. Nor does it take into account the player character's ability to improve the quality of their bow so that it fires the arrow with greater force (and thusly imparting more kinetic energy into the target).

So no, I have no problem with shooting robots with arrows.

No way, you can't explain that.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bill-oreilly-you-cant-explain-that

If you refer to my above post I wasn't inferring that Dwemer machines should have absolute immunity against arrows, rather just a heightened resistance to it. Archery is of particular interest because it is very much limited by the elasticity of a piece of string in how much damage it can inflict. Beyond a certain limit, it's like if there was a firearm in the game and you were able to increase its bullet damage through a perk that affected you - pretty nonsensical. But I'm being quite pedantic, I understand what you mean about the magical enhancements and your ebony points holds true.

It's still funny to see how defensive people can get about any perceived threat or complaint (something that this thread definitely is not) against the current mechanics. I wish people were a bit more open-minded and less defensive about new things haa.

Actually, to preform the task you just stated, the said ebony-tipped arrow would need to be shot out with force equal to at least an assault rifle. Think of it this way; you have a hammer and a marble, of course you CAN break the marble with the hammer but only if you smash it. Lightly tapping it won't achieve much. And no, there is and has never been a bow with enough power to smash several inches of metal.

Given the thickness of the dwemer construct plates I just assume that arrows simply target joints and other weaker areas, not the armor at its' thickest point (though we have a visual of every weapon impact, impact areas does not exist in Skyrim).

I do. Its not always true that a thing always takes damage. It depends on the thing and what's 'damaging' it. You can hit a tank for a week with a baseball bat and destroy the bat with no damage to the tank. With some materials there is a threshold where any damage below a certain force is always cosmetic or nothing at all. Now if the robot is made of Balsa wood, or tin, that's different, but if it's a strong metal ~even magical craft? It would surely take more than a stone tipped arrow to bother it. Even a steel tipped spike on the arrow might have trouble punching through ½ inch metal plate. (Of course, we can't know if they are ½ inch plate, but they don't look like they are foil covered. )



Is it magic?

(Or more specifically... is it magical fire, or normal/regular fire brought about by magical means?)

In my thinking... If a mage cast a spell that opened a 'hole' into a fiery dimension, and out shot a super heated stream of conventional flames ~it still should not effect a ghost.

* But an enchantment (of magical fire?) intended to harm a ghost could 'burn' one ~and perhaps set fire to nothing else in the area; http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/magic.jpg.

Well... in real life, non magical plain arrows will shoot into a car door... so I don't see a problem with arrows shooting into a mechanical robot.

And I think anything... magic or weapons... being able to harm a ghost is odd... but we can't really toss holy water on them since throwing weapons don't exist in Skyrim.

With life.

Interestingly enough, a car door is about as thick (less I'd say) as a metal cuirass ~and they do punch through... but what robot would be so thin skinned? (it's only thin because men can't wear much thicker.)

*Whose to say that parts of them aren't solid? IMO a metal man is the perfect conventional threat that is (or should be) immune to all bladed and piercing weapons; and should need a sound beating with hammers to defeat; (blunt impacts). No detection of Life either.


I've played RPGs where casting healing spells on undead could kill them.

I suppose if it was a powerful shot it would still damage it..

If that's the case, I think undead should only be killed by holy magic/holy enchanted weapon! Otherwise how can it be undead? Well the
More we get into this, the more it gets complicated. So be it.

I don't disagree with much except the hide shield thing. Treated and hardened leather, particularly if it's a laminate type, is pretty resilient. It's pretty close to being arrow proof once you add bone to it.

This is true, treated leather, like kevlar, is very difficult to punch through due to it's texture. Softer material is also pushed into the wound along with the point of an arrow, making it bleed less (not that it would matter to a construct). Soldiers in eastern asia wore silk padding as standard for this very purpose (and modern balistic tests prove that silk is still more resilient than kevlar or any compound that man can produce artificially).

If you'll notice, every single arrow shot against a dwemer construct bounces off, instead of sticking like they do on fleshier targets. What I have always imagined is that the arrows still dent the armor plating, causing damage to the delicate internal systems inside.

Maybe the centurion has some sort of an Achilles heel...

Just look at the story of Achilles himself, almighty and invincible everyone thought. One arrow to the ankle brought him down and killed him. Surely this must be the same case with a centurion.