if TLDR - guide at bottom of post | Note this is my opinion and has been enjoyable/balanced in my experiences - please don't flame

As we all know, Skyrim uses an intuitive but inherently flawed method of determining your skill increases - basing experience rewards on how much you use that particular skill. Personally I find this works pretty well for most non-crafting skills, e.g. Two-Handed, Archery, Block, Destruction, Light Armor, but there is almost unanimous agreement that crafting skills are too easy to 'grind'.

This leads to the common argument that "crafting ruins the game", and many players 'self-gimp' to prevent themselves becoming too strong too early on using crafted weapons and armor. I've had similar experiences. I've played through the game with half a dozen characters, and my most enjoyable playthroughs were my first for obvious reasons, and my most recent one, where I tried to instinctively limit myself in Smithing/Enchanting level based on my overall level. I found that my ability to smith new weapons and armor remained just behind finding them as loot drops, and my enchanting capabilities remained for the most part just below the enchantments I was finding on looted weapons (e.g. I could enchant 28 points of Fire damange while I was finding weapons with 30 points of Fire Damage).

I decided to take this a bit further and look at the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Generic_Magic_Weapons, in order to come up with a rough guide for determining at what level you should raise a skill up to a certain point to keep looting exciting yet still keeping crafting effective. This obviously requires a fair amount of self-discipline, but for those of you who are interested it should help keep the game exciting throughout (without gimping yourself unnecessarily by forcing yourself to use an Iron Sword while in clothing throughout the game, or not improving weapons/armor at all etc).

Note that these levels are approximate, and based on being able to craft weapons/armor of a similar quality/strength/enchantment strength 1-2 levels after you will typically find them being dropped as loot. For this to work, there is a prerequisite that otherwise will throw Smithing/Enchanting off balance:

• This guide assumes you won't combine crafting skills to boost them up, e.g. drinking enchanting potion to enchant a set of clothing with fortify smithing while drinking a fortify smithing potion to take your weapons way past legendary quality. Obviously this may or may not appeal to some people; some people may enjoy being able to one shot kill most enemies. However, from my experiences (over 500 hours of total skyrim playtime... admirable, I know), the crafting skills are plenty powerful as standalones. If you feel like you're excluding too large a part of the crafting designing by not combining them, then go ahead and use +Fortify Smithing items you find as loot if you so choose.

Anyway, if you abide by the following rough level guide you should have a more enjoyable crafting experience, and Skyrim experience in general (imo). It's not a simple case of linear increases throughout the game; there are several special perks that may incentivise you to reach that next crafting level (e.g. Arcane Blacksmith for Smithing and the eventual Extra Effect for Enchanting).


SMITHING

Minimum player level before you should let yourself have before you get ---- x smithing level ---- and let yourself get y smithing perk

• Lv 8 ----- 20 smithing ----- Steel Smithing
  
• Lv 13 ----- 30 smithing ----- Dwarven Smithing
  
• Lv 18 ----- 40 smithing ----- Elven Smithing
  
• Lv 23 ----- 50 smithing ----- Advanced Armors
  
• Lv 26 ----- 60 smithing ----- Orcish Smithing
  
• Lv 30 ----- 70 smithing ----- Glass Smithing
  
• Lv 36 ----- 80 smithing ----- Ebony Smithing
  
• Lv 48 ----- 90 smithing ----- Daedric Smithing
  
• Lv 55 ----- 100 smithing ----- Dragon Smithing

This should work for both Light and Heavy Armor users, as it takes into account both the level at which both weapons and armor of a particular material begin to drop (e.g. Orcish weapons begin dropping at lv 6, while armor doesn't till 25).


ENCHANTING

Minimum player level before you should let yourself have before you get ---- x enchanting level ---- and let yourself get y enchanting perk

• Lv 5 ----- 20 enchanting ----- Enchanter rank 1
  
• Lv 10 ----- 30 enchanting ----- Enchanter rank 2
  
• Lv 21 ----- 40 enchanting ----- Enchanter rank 3
  
• Lv 32 ----- 50 enchanting ----- Insightful Enchanter
  
• Lv 38 ----- 60 enchanting ----- Enchanter rank 4
  
• Lv 45 ----- 70 enchanting ----- Corpus Enchanter
  
• Lv 52 ----- 80 enchanting ----- Enchanter rank 5
  
• Lv 57 ----- 100 enchanting ----- Extra Effect

NB - enchanting level requirements may seem a bit inflated compared to the corresponding smithing level requirements, but this is done on purpose because enchanted weapons/armor drop at a later level than non-enchanted weapons/armor of a given material quality. If you plan on not going beyond lv 50 with a character, then you can set your level reqs a bit earlier, but note that at Lv 50 you won't get drops of both the highest material quality and enchantment strength (e.g. Daedric Helm of Peerless Archery begins to drop at Lv 55).
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I've had a very enjoyable couple of playthroughs following these guidelines. If any of you do end up following them, let me know how you find it feels for balance. Thanks for reading, LR.

Good policy on my character im playing right now after a certain point I only upgraded my armor every 10 levels. I kind of skiped past Iron and went strait to steel and used it to level 20 and then used dwemer armor till level 30, at 30 I switched to orcish and at 40 I wore ebony. At level 50 i grinded out to get dragon and deadric armor since they really aren't a whole lot different DR wise and used the dragon armor on my character and the deadric on my companion.

I also tried as best as I could to have my armor switching correspond to some major quest tree ending like finishing the main quest, finishing the companions ect, ect and would do radiant quests to make sure it matched up. Doing smithing that way felt really organic and matching up a finished quest tree with a huge power boost made it feel more like I accomplished something big. Granted now that im level 55 the game is horrendously easy but im also done with most of the stuff my character set out to do when I made it and it feels like im running downhill to the finish line not like I broke my game with a god character.

Just play how you want to. That's what the game is designed around.

Nice work OP.

I tend to limit myself to specific types of armour for RP purposes. So right now my Knight of the Circle (Arkay) shall not be using anything better than steel plate. Wouldn't make sense for a follower or Arkay to wear daderic, Orc or even Dwarven armour. And the same goes for weapons.

Once you've player a couPle of times you become aware of just how OP / game ruining crafting can be.

It only ruins your game if you let it. No one forces you to craft yourself into Godhead, its all choices.

I do something similar with Smithing. Not so much Enchanting, because the only experience I get from that is from disemchantments.

I assign each type of weapon and armour a number of units based on the size of the item.

Jewelry (set of 1 necklace, 1 circlet, 1 ring) - 1 unit
Daggers - 0.5 unit
1h weapons - 1 unit
2h weapons - 2 units
Bows - 1 unit
Armour - 3 units
Boots - 1 unit
Gauntlets/Gloves - 1 unit
Helmet - 2 units

I limit myself to 3 units per game day and even then I don't smith every day. As for improving weapons and armour, I am undecided about whether or not I should half those values because I'm not creating new weapons, or double the values because my character would be performing a delicate "operation" to improve upon an item without changing it's form.


That mentality just breeds threads that basically say "Smithing is broken because I grinded the hell out of smithing and now the games unbalanced."

That's not what I was saying at all...

What I was referring to; is that you really should play the game how you want. But making a thread about 'keeping yourself in check' implies that you have no choice but to spam the crafting skills until you ascend to Godhead.

If you don't want a god-like, over-powered character... then don't create one. You can't "accidentally" spam the crafting skills and get overpowered. It's a conscious act of will and action that causes these things to be abused.

The game isn't broken. Min/Max'ing the Skills and systems in the game is what breaks the game play. And that is the choice of the player to do so. not the design of the game tricking/forcing you to do these things.

Most of the time that I read a thread about how 'blah thing is broken, it needs to be changed', it's because the poster has exploited one or multiple systems in the game to get said over-powered thing, and then blames the game/design for letting him do it.

That's just crap.

Play the game how you want. If you don't want to be over-powered, then don't spam the Skill systems.

There's no reason to "keep 'whatever thing/skill' in check" as it is the player choice to exploit those things. If you don't like breaking your own game with the results of your own choices in how you play, then don't play that way.

It's really a very simple concept.

Wow. Impressive work. Thank you for this.

Not at all, some people have more restraint than others where smithing is concerned. And more common sense it seems, lol

Nice post OP.

Do you combine the crafting skills? I don't mean using potions but are you raising both smithing AND enchanting in this way on a build?

I have generally limited myself to one of smithing, enchanting or alchemy per build.

However I would get to 100 smithing quite a bit sooner (between 35-40 iirc).

I just restrict myself to found/looted materials (not even buying soulgems) for leveling (occasionally I'll buy mats if I need something for actual use, but considering I don't have the crafting perks that leaves only ingots for rare improvements, and I still won't buy soulgems)

Seems to curb leveling speed nicely. Especially with the smithing XP fix >.<

I edited my above post to reflect my actual thoughts on the subject.

Did you read my post, or are you just trolling?

I use RP restrictions to limit my crafting / enchanting to avoid ruining the game. I don't craft godlike armour and weapons.

Obvious troll is obvious..

Edit: seems you were referring to someone else, apologizes.

with my smithing build I actively seek out ore to mine and ofc you get a lot of gems this way. Also I kill/harvest every creature that drops leather but otw I don't buy smithing materials either.


I do buy alchemy ingredients though because my potion makers are not RP for dropping giants

Ah yes, makes much more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

I limit myself for RP purposes. In fact, pretty much everything I do in game is for RP, lol.

No prob. Sorry for the obscurity on my part.

This. For Mara's sake, man. It's like driving a car that goes up to 120 and complaining that you only want to go 65.

Thank you Legacy_Raider for this work, will use your guide as reference in future playthroughs, as I do like the idea behind finding loot that I can craft myself in a few levels, almost like the player is always playing catch up.

Quoted for Tru7h.

Good guide OP. I don't use any constraints like you propose, but in just playing the game, I maxed out Smithing by the time my character was in the mid 40's and I still have not maxed out my Enchanting (in the 80's) and my character is level 50. However, I do not grind these skills, I only use them as I play the game. Well, I did some grinding on Smithing, but I would expect someone to practice that craft, so it was natural to me.

What I never did was try to gain several levels in one session of crafting, or even try to get more than one level. If a level happened by the time I used up the materials I had found or acquired, so be it.

This is basically how I play it as well. For myself, I just use what I had on hand through my travels, and when that was gone, I went back out for more loot & murdering fun.

I've never cruised the cities trying to spam the Smithing Skill, but I make my argument earlier that the mechanism is there if that's your style.

to each his own, literally. that's why I love this game series so much.

I smith because I enjoy smithing. Apparently I'm congenitally incapable of NOT smithing, so I tend to level up there whether I want to or not. I was actually happy (eventually) that the ability to level up so quickly through grinding out low level stuff was taken away, it has kept things more interesting.

However for me personally I just don't want to have some formula that I have to keep track of that allows or forbids me to do or wear certain things, or make certain things, or take certain perks, or whatever.

My "solution" was more an RP thing this time around... I joined the Stormcloaks, and I wore SC armor throughout the CW. Granted, I used mods that turned the basic cuirass into heavy armor, because that's what I prefer, but it was still fairly low level heavy armor. I also used a modded in "Heroic Stormcloak" set that allowed me to forge HA boots and gauntlets to go with the basic cuirass, and eventually gave me a full set of something a little above and beyond the vanilla officer's set. But I didn't wear the full Heroic set until the battle of Solitude, because it didn't seem appropriate to wear it beforehand. I just wore the vanilla officer's set (once I got it) before that. None of it required more than the Steel Perk (or Arcane Smithing once I enchanted it). And I wasn't leveled up all the way in Smithing then so I couldn't get it anywhere near the Armor cap.

I eventually did take perks up to Orcish but only because I wanted to use the Axe of Eastmarch to finish out the CW and what I got when I became Thane was an Orcish axe. I made a bow to match and those were the best weapons I've had so far when you figure in the improvements I could make with the perks I had. I haven't used elven or glass and won't. I won't be using Daedric this time around either, unless it's something earned through a quest or given to me, because making it or buying it doesn't seem appropriate for my character. I may not use it even then, I haven't decided.

Now I've finished the war and joined the Companions, so I'm wearing the Wolf Armor and carrying Skyforge steel, altho I have since taken the Ebony perk and allowed myself the luxury of using an ebony bow I set aside for later. The sword I got at the end of the CW was ebony and so I will eventually want to use that, but not while I'm working my way up through the Companions. I already have a full set of ebony armor and weapons ready to improve and use, but the point is... I'm not using them. I'm using what I feel is appropriate for my character at this point in her "career" regardless of whether or not it's the best gear available to me. And yes I have Fortify Smithing apparel and Fortify Smithing potions and I do use them when improving stuff, but so far it's usually been because I needed them to get whatever I was wearing up to a damage/armor rating that didn't result in me being routinely and repeatedly killed by whatever enemies I was facing.

I've got plenty of other better stuff that I've found that is just sitting in a chest waiting for the appropriate moment to put it on or bestow it on a follower. I don't need a formula for that, it'll just happen when it happens. I expect I won't be making or wearing any dragon armor until I get very near the end of the MQ. The last playthrough I had the perk for it pretty early on, and actually made it for followers, but I never wore it myself until after the first battle with Alduin at the TotW. Because honestly I didn't like it all that much, but it seemed like something my character might do to make a point, you know, "Oh hey Alduin guess who's here and you see what I'm wearing? I made this out of your dead friends."

Not saying that having a formula is a bad thing, lol, it just makes it too much like work for me. I've already got lists of books and spells and enchantments that I'm forever checking off every time I obtain a new one, that's about all I can stand. RPing also works if you want it to, is all I'm saying.

I'm not really understanding why people have such a hard time not overleveling the crafting skills? I only craft what I need, and that makes me feel like my crafting skills aren't leveling FAST enough, because I can't smith gear good enough to give me the protection and deal the damage I need based on the enemies I meet. I play on Expert, so obviously I could just turn it down if I'm in trouble, but so far it works pretty good. I have to take some time out every now and then to work on my crafting skills so they catch up a bit.

Does everyone else just spam useless gear for no other reason than to power level?

The basic issue is the Skill Progression is designed so that someone playing the game will level their skills as they need to as they go through the game. In other words, TES games don't need any grinding to stay on pace with the game. However, this requires skills to level up with less use than other games, namely MMO's. But, those games are all about the levels, so gaining levels needs to be harder, so skill ups or character levels take more usage and effort.

What this creates is a system where it is relatively easy to grind any skill, if the person wants that. However, the pay off is a game that allows your character to grow as it needs to by just playing the game without the need for grinding. This also results in a sweet spot of Level 15 to 50 where the challenges of the game are in line with the skills of the character.

Thank you for this. Lots of time clearly went into it. I lvl my char just naturally but very helpful for those who want to play a set way!