Then we have the "The jarl can't eat every deer,can he?"

Please keep the animal rightist PC insanity out of the Elder Scrolls

There we are, in a world where technology is no longer prevalent and magic is relied upon- as well as a strong back, farming and hunting. So what does the archer store say about hunting- in a land where meat is provided in large part by hunting?
"What are you hunting? Nevermind, I don't want to know." He sounds like he just found out you dealt Skooma or sold your sister to the Thalmor.

If the NPC's had more to say, as they often did in earlier Elder Scrolls games, it wouldn't stand out, but in Skyrim the blacksmiths say the same thing and the archers say the same thing and the hunters say the same thing. 'Hunted and fished this land all my life'

Then we have the "The jarl can't eat every deer,can he?"

Please keep the animal rightist PC insanity out of the Elder Scrolls

There we are, in a world where technology is no longer prevalent and magic is relied upon- as well as a strong back, farming and hunting. So what does the archer store say about hunting- in a land where meat is provided in large part by hunting?
"What are you hunting? Nevermind, I don't want to know." He sounds like he just found out you dealt Skooma or sold your sister to the Thalmor.

How much business do you think an archer would get talking like that to people who walked into his place? But it gets worse, in Whiterun , a main city and home for many of us, we have the Drunken Huntsman bar and archer supply store. If this is A- OK and helps with "Imersion", let's have a few more!

The fashion place in Solitude should call itself the, "Well Heeled [censored]", the general store; "Slack Jaw Supply", and who could forget, "Drooling Nord's Spit-shined Potions"?

I imagine many of you playing Skyrim have never hunted in your life. That's fine with me- I wouldn't think of insulting you because of it. Where I live in Montana people do hunt- and they need to eat, and coincidentally, it looks an awful lot like Skyrim around here. Some of my neighbors don't have an inside outhouse, if you know what I mean. But they're decent people, and they don't drive down to a store in town which insults them.

The writers feel this is humorous- that's the saddest part. It was funny- they couldn't restrain they're own feelings about such things and had to inject them into the game. One archer in one town and they could have their laugh- but they put this line on both archers I've found so far in the game with stores. It's the default line.

If the NPC's had more to say, as they often did in earlier Elder Scrolls games, it wouldn't stand out, but in Skyrim the blacksmiths say the same thing and the archers say the same thing and the hunters say the same thing. 'Hunted and fished this land all my life'

Then we have the "The jarl can't eat every deer,can he?"

Please keep the animal rightist PC insanity out of the Elder Scrolls

I know by writing about this I've elevated a very minor issue into a thread and this will invite sarcasm- the drunken huntsman kind of sarcasm I imagine. There are far more important things going on with Skyrim. This humor should have been reserved by the writers when they were sitting around the table getting paid and having fun. If you dismiss everything I've said about it, it still breaks form and makes no sense in Skyrim, a land of hunting Nords for God's sakes!

The Stupid Nord Store

Methinks you're putting a bit too much thought into shoddy and rushed dialogue.

I knew people wouldn't get the thread.

You didn't get the answers. You didn't get the one-liners that NPCs throw at you. And yet you're saying that we don't understand what you mean? We understand clearly.

There we are, in a world where technology is no longer prevalent and magic is relied upon- as well as a strong back, farming and hunting. So what does the archer store say about hunting- in a land where meat is provided in large part by hunting?
"What are you hunting? Nevermind, I don't want to know." He sounds like he just found out you dealt Skooma or sold your sister to the Thalmor.

I imagine many of you playing Skyrim have never hunted in your life. That's fine with me- I wouldn't think of insulting you because of it. Where I live in Montana people do hunt- and they need to eat, and coincidentally, it looks an awful lot like Skyrim around here. Some of my neighbors don't have an inside outhouse, if you know what I mean. But they're decent people, and they don't drive down to a store in town which insults them.

Old Grog


You are maybe assuming that because someone doesn't hunt that they are against hunting. I know if there were a need to feed my family I would certainly have no problem doing what was necessary to acquire food. I think the problem I have with hunting has to do with attitude. When I see hunters svcking down a six pack, laughing and joking like they are at a tailgate party really rubs me the wrong way. Taking the life of something so that you can live shouldn't be done with a party atmosphere. It might come as news to some people that animals actually like being alive and truly resent someone trying to end it--if you doubt me then just try to take down that same buck with your bare hands and see if he doesn't 'give-as-good-as-he-gets'.

Poaching is a whole other subject, don't get me started.....

What are you on about? You know most animals, if not all, are incapable of consciously thinking about anything right? They are incapable of resentment, or consciously liking being alive. Hell, most of them lack even basic self-awareness.. They run, and if you were to catch them, fight, because it's hard wired into their system.

Projecting feelings and thoughts into animals is a road to failure. Sure, don't cause them unnecessary suffering, but don't think they resent you when they simply recognise you as a threat.

Plus, why shouldn't hunters have fun hunting? Why should you feel guilty for killing something for food? Do you feel guilty when you cook storebought meat?

Methinks you're putting a bit too much thought into shoddy and rushed dialogue.

What are you on about? You know most animals, if not all, are incapable of consciously thinking about anything right? They are incapable of resentment, or consciously liking being alive. Hell, most of them lack even basic self-awareness.. They run, and if you were to catch them, fight, because it's hard wired into their system.

Revelation : it's not serious. It's a bit of fun, a bit of 4th wall breaking, in order to make you smile! Chill out!

There we are, in a world where technology is no longer prevalent and magic is relied upon- as well as a strong back, farming and hunting. So what does the archer store say about hunting- in a land where meat is provided in large part by hunting?
"What are you hunting? Nevermind, I don't want to know." He sounds like he just found out you dealt Skooma or sold your sister to the Thalmor.

How much business do you think an archer would get talking like that to people who walked into his place? But it gets worse, in Whiterun , a main city and home for many of us, we have the Drunken Huntsman bar and archer supply store. If this is A- OK and helps with "Imersion", let's have a few more!

What are you on about? You know most animals, if not all, are incapable of consciously thinking about anything right? They are incapable of resentment, or consciously liking being alive. Hell, most of them lack even basic self-awareness.. They run, and if you were to catch them, fight, because it's hard wired into their system.

How do you explain that some animal can learn things? Like living with human, doing some things like scratching door when they want to pee. What about the blind people's dog? etc..

Have you ever even owned a pet? Basic observation shows that dogs and cats are very smart and remember people, specific things that tramatize them they remember.

For example my ex girlfriend would get drunk all the time and try to cut the dogs hair. She'd mess up and cut his ears. The dog freaks out when SHE puts him on the table for a haircut, yet when I do it he likes it. Two people, same procedure yet when she does it he's nervous as hell. He likes her in other situations, so its not just her. Its her doing a specific thing, that is only done about twice a year.

My dogs are scared of the flyswatter. I only get it out a few times a year and sure enough when I dig it out of the closet each fall when flies are bad they freak out and go hide. They haven't seen it for a year but remember it scares them before I even swat it!

Sounds of treat bags opening brings them running every time, and if I'm upset about something my cats come to console me. They couldn't care less to give me the time of day any other time but when I'm down about something I go to my room to sulk or whatever, and the cat seeks me out every time. Like he senses something is wrong somehow.

I could go on all night about how animals have feelings and are very smart with various examples but I think these illustrate my point about how smart they are. They aren't just meat bags. They have their own little culture and ways, and personality. They learn all kinds of things. I'd say they are way smarter than any of the AI in games we waste our time on LOL. They can problem solve and remember about anything, and can be taught stuff. They conquer fears. Like they are scared of a bath or haircut at first but learn its ok over time. Scared of strangers until they get to know them.

My dogs have learned to identify "tv dogs" and real dogs. They used to bark at TV doorbells and the real doorbell, now its just the real doorbell and real dogs. They used to bark at skyrim dogs and wolves but don't any more. They are smarter than people think. They definitely have feelings and show remorse when you scold them.

Another example of people projecting human thoughts and emotions into animals. I have pets, but treating them like humans is just expecting too much from them.

Remembering that something hurts/scares you is not conscious thought. Remembering that something is/isn't a threat to you does not equate to conscious thought. It's an incredibly basic evolutionary function, and one that you are desperately over-valuating.

How can you prove that animal does NOT have consciousness and we, human, have one? On what are your claim are based?

(sorry if i'm not clear, english isn't my native language)

Trying to use lack of proof to the contrary as proof of your ideal is a logical fallacy.

They can't perceive or reflect and are incapable of conscious thought; most of them can't even recognise themselves in a mirror (I believe the total of species able to is around 6 or 7 or so).