So recently i was watching some vids of MMO's and i noticed very often, perhaps what is the most annoying thing when fighting monsters, Monster Reset

Whats the problem? Well, for some reason certain MMO developers have decided to keep chasing local. By that i mean, if you kite or something you run the risk of getting a full reset on what you are fighting. Let me explain how bad this is.

• Complete immersion loss
• Waste of any consumables used during the fight
• Waste of time
• Loss of focus, player now has to contemplate if monsters are even worth fighting
• Nearby players may begin engaging, soon figuring out they cant hurt it
• And many more...

Possible solutions?

Solution 1: Disable mob reset completely

Solution 2: Only allow mob to reset after player is killed

Solution 3: After a certain distance of chase, monster gets a speed boost

Solution 4: Increase chase distance dramatically

The old final fantasy online had a really long, sometimes infinite chase distance, and it worked just fine, even causing hilarity at times, and increasing the challenge of the game.

It worked in FFXI because the cities were in different zones than the mobs. In this game the cities are in the same zone as mobs. The leash ranges are to remove what happened in WoW (people were dragging world bosses into cities). It also makes the person have to actually pay attention to how they kite as they have to keep within the leash range.

Why many MMOs have given up on this is due to griefing. I remember in WoW people we constantly leashing the world dragons into major cities just to watch them cause havok and kill everyone around the place. Could they make them a tad bigger? Sure they could, but they should NEVER be infinite since it just leads to griefing people.

Interesting counter arguments. So is it confirmed that world bosses exist?

Anyways, like i had suggested, speeding up the mob after a certain distance is still better than a mob reset. No one should have to suffer that because of one possible thing that could happen/be easily fixed.

I could see a long chase distance, but not forever.

Also, if we talk about chase distance we should talk about sight line. That always annoyed me. If a monster can see you he should attack. He defiantely shouldnt watch you attack his friends and do nothing.

Make sight line, concealment and camoflague mean something.

Uh, I think they have said that there are going to be world bosses, but that wasn't our argument really.

Just giving mobs speed boost isn't going to solve this issue. You have to factor in how far away major settlements are so that the big baddie can't make it to the town. Plus how will the player use the environment to his advantage to keep the boss away even though he's moving faster. Plus some classes have spells that let the jump 30m away. Just use that at opportune times and you could keep it away. It's really not as simple as just making them move faster.

i remember in daoc people would train and entire dungeon and kill everyone. it was so annoying as hell

What if the guards got a major damage boost when fighting certain monsters like these world bosses? Of course, if the guard kills the monster no one gets XP.

That also destroys immersion and wastes time and consumables. Unlike what is often portrayed in movies, animals do not pursue for that long. Heck many won't pursue. As for human type mobs, they wouldn't pursue at all if you are headed towards guards, or if you leave the territory they are guarding.

I agree with the OP for the most part and have thought about starting a topic just like it myself.

The challenge level in ESO isnt there. You have to get pretty close to gain mob aggro, they dont chase very far at all and their friends never assist. Its way too easy, and thus boring.

I liked how mobs were in everquest. I never liked dying, of course no one does, but at least I felt challenged and there was always a sense of danger and unpredictability. = FUN

Mobs in EQ would chase you forever until you zoned anyway, and unless you have an item or spell to boost your running speed you never escaped unless you were close to a zone edge.

Did players grief others? Yes and no. Most of the time powerful mobs in lower lvl zone roamed free all around their zone and if you were not in a safe spot they might just wander up to you and kill you. other times players would get in over their heads and run for the zone, and any other player in the aggro radius of those mobs would catch the aggro. once the fleeing player either made it to the zone or died, the mob(s) would go back to kill everyone else that got aggro.

Was this fun? I say yes. You learned the dangers of the zones you traveled, either the hard way or by seeing it happen to someone else or your friends warned you of the danger. Danger makes a game more interesting. There were certainly plenty of unfair situations though, the game wasnt perfect. But that sense of danger and finality of death permeated the entire game world and simply made it that much more rewarding in your successes.

Games nowadays... you run about, avoid all danger, get your quest objective, run back, get your reward... and go.. MEH. Thats partly why these games dont last very long.

the reason why monsters reset is to avoid exploits and grief players. i think the key is how far monsters chase before they reset. i am fine with the reset, it just cant happen too soon

I feel like trying to stop greifing in the manner that has been done over the course of MMO's has been lazy. Why does it have to be a certain distance on all mobs? Maybe for ESO sake the monster could lose agro at the entrance of city, is that really rocket science?

I NEVER ran into these griefing problems in the old final fantasy MMO and i would often see the incredible sight of 200 orcs chasing a single guy, all i would need to do is step back, its not like he can just sit there and wait for the mobs to attack me, if he did, he would die first.

Should we all have to suffer through these resets due to the possibility of a few griefers? Am i the only one that finds the whole griefing mechanic to be refreshing at times, even if its me being greifed? Somehow being thrown out of the robotic cycle is fun, as long as its temporary and doesn't ruin the entire expirence... I mean how long can a world boss seriously stay alive inside a town full of players?

You don't suffer at all if you adapt and instead of kiting in a straight line, you kite around in circles.

In WoW? It would wipe the cities because the lower level players were in the cities (this was before the dungeon finder was brought out)

But fun and hilarious to the griefer! I used to do in everquest. Funny story... The blackburrow zone had a really deep chasm in the middle and way down below was a bridge, with mobs that roamed across. I used to stand at the edge of the chasm and cast a spell on a mob way below and aggro it. In EQ aggro would spread like wildfire. I would then to the zone entrance where a lot of other players were resting or afk and I would sit down. Sitting would cause mobs to go berzerk on YOU. Because if players were down below and 1 or 2 mobs that I aggroed ran into them, the players could kill them easily. But if I was sitting the mobs would ignore everything and come for me and bring friends. Due to pathing this usually took about 3 minutes or so before I would have 50 gnolls come out of the caves on the surface making a beeline for me. WELL, Just as the first wave reached me I would step out of the zone to safety. the aggro I had would transfer to the other players hanging out at the zone edge. ALL of the aggro. I would wait about 5 minutes then go back in to count the bodies. The best part... no one ever had a clue who was causing these trains. It was evil I know... but soooo funny to see players spamming in the zone chat TRAIN!!! TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is, that doesn't keep people around. It makes more people quit than would stay and enjoy it. Then once the majority of people leave (due to having so many more options in games) the griefers are then left with little to grief and get board. It is ultimately poison to the game.

Another possible solution is to learn to kite properly. You don't have to run things straight around a zone to keep them at a proper distance. I don't understand the problem here.

Ah but I only did that in low lvl zones. Recuperating from death at low levels was trivial and didnt really make anyone quit. Trains were a well known and accepted evil in EQ At high level though was pretty rare, and usually accidental, and more often than not, player groups were strong enough to stop the runaway trains, unless it was some uber rampaging boss. I didnt do that kinda of thing beyond low lvls.

The lowbies are typically the casuals and mass market MMO's nowadays need all the casuals they can get.

after reading this i see why you and me disagree on pretty much everything.

So I actually laughed out loud at this. Its horribly rude to other players, but the image itself is hilarious.

To a certain extent, I agree with the OP.

You have to have some type of leash to prevent griefing. But if the leash is too short, it can be really frustrating. Another option is to have mobs health freeze when they get to the leash limit so that they turn and run back, not taking damage while they do, but don't heal and undo all the damage that you did already.

Training large boss type creatures into cities isn't griefing, its fun, it adds a little oompf into the game. Nothing wrong with a little oompf I say.

Tethering also keeps quest mobs from straying too far from their spawn points. Nothing worse than being unable to finish a quest because the mob/npc is nowhere to be found.

Which is a good thing why?

Exactly... Plenty of examples in any number of nature documentaries.

And besides, how long are you really going to chase someone that poops on your front lawn? A block or two? Maybe, but you're certainly not going to chase him across town, into the countryside, across the ocean and around the rest of the world.

So that they could be found by the player(s) undertaking the quest - which I mentioned in my previous post.