guys i have questions..right now i'm playing master+PISE mod (add more difficulty,AI tweaks and mobs scaling)

so i was playing warrior+shield and i met bandit chief,two-handed battleaxe+heavy armor

like usual,my pattern is shield bash-attack 2x while circling him until i'm on his back and rinse again...

but this time,when i was about to shield bash him from behind,all of a sudden the animation fatality takes place and i'm dead...is it even possible to instant kill us while our position is on his back furthermore my shield was raised and his doing power attacks which bullet time animation should triggered by Quick Reflex perk takes place..

is it a bug??or is there any hidden mechanism that at some point, damage dealt from mobs that surpassed our full health will ignored all of our attributes including armors and quick reflex perk and results as i described above?

thx guys

Are you sure there wasn't another attacker you didn't see?

On master (especially with difficulty increasing mods) it is fairly possible for enemies to one-shot you easily. And it's not a bug, enemy NPCs can do kill animations too and what's really annoying is that they interrupt you and just annihilate you without any regard for your emotional well-being.

Yes, enemy mobs can insta-kill you without any warning, especially on master. The game engine pre-calcs possible damage, and if the mob can take you below zero health, you are insta-deathed without giving you a chance to block or dodge out of the way. Quick Reflexes is ignored in these instances. The only real defense you have against this from happening is to have high health/armor rating or not to melee with high-level opponents that use powerful weapons like 2handers... stealth kills, archery, magic -- that sort of thing.

-Loth

It's not a bug. I use PISE plus duke patricks combat tweaks on master, and these make bandits, mostly bosses, just about the most dangerous enemies in the game.

Either drop the difficulty, or be ready with potions, dodging, blocking etc. Actually, you should probably do all of the above, if you stay on master. You can get one-hit pretty easily even on expert with these mods.

nope i was alone and toe-to-toe with him




hmmm okay,so there's a mechanism that ignores even our quick reflex perks and insta-kill us in a seconds...one more thing about my question when i was behind his back while he was staggered and kill me,how is that possible??i mean to attack even mobs had to face-to-face with player in order a damage could take a hit..if this also possible then there's no dead angle for the mobs?

i'm used to master difficulty before and i can defend myself pretty damn good....lol

i think PISE just takes us to a higher challenge and more fun too..a LOT if i may add,hehehehe....oh well,it's time to get rough then and get even with them..wohooooo!!!

The decision to trigger kill moves is made depending on if you would be killed by the incoming attack. Unfortunately it is flawed. The calculations will not take shield blocking into account.

That's right... and the 2H users are the WORST. The range of those weapons just makes them absolutely deadly. Since you are using the PC, I might have something that can help you -- a console code:

set killmoverandom to 0

Using this console code has the unfortunate side-effect of also switching off the player's 3rd person kill animations, but it makes the insta-kill from bandit leaders and such not so automatic... you might really need this, considering your playstyle and installed mods.

-Loth

hhaaaaaa,i seeee...so it's possible that mobs can insta-kill us eventho his state was staggered and we are behind his back,intereseting..now i might have to come for a better tactics,hehehehe

hey thx man,i didn't know there's such a command like that,hahaha...but wouldn't it turns the game more easier??i like the challenge tho,hehehehehe

Yeah, after thinking about this, and experiencing it first hand a number of times, I'm changing my vote to bug, as in design flaw.

I think duke patrick is working on changing the strike angles to be more realistic which would partially solve the problem. But the actual damage calc needs to be refined and maybe delayed.

The mods exaggerate the issue, though. I think DP makes blocking both more important in general and less effective at lower skill. PISE can increase the number of spawns, increases their potential level in relation to you, and makes enemies smarter.

I had a fight with 6 bandits, 3 of which could do > 250 hp dmg pet hit through 150 armor. And Lydia kept rushing in and getting killed. To make it worse, those three bandits took 10-15 strikes each to kill. That fight took about 20 reloads.

How can you ask if it's a bug when you have a mod installed? No one can possibly know the answer to your question.

No its not a bug and I like how they sometimes can insta-kill. It prevents the player from mindlessly charging and killing enemies with ease.

hahahaha,i thought so too...before the PISE mod,when i was playing on master difficulty for the first time on skyrim,there's something that always bothering me in some ways...the power attack done by mobs...

even without quick reflex perk,we can almost see when they charging for power attacks and proceed with a slower attack animation before halfway the attack takes place,i was trying so hard to dodge this by circling them without QR perk and even with light armor the attack hits me and it seems if you look closely when the power attack has done halfway the mob can actually turn to us,even when i'm at his dead angle...LOL

damage calc delayed??what do you mean?so the QR perk can't be ignored?

The fix for this particular "design flaw" (as I like to call it) is either going to be easy or impossible after CK is out. If there is a way to change the scripting for enemy hits, you could make the enemy killmove proc only after the player has been brought to zero health. Have a script capture player death, and if it was caused by a bad guy -- THEN you play the enemy kill animation. The way it is now, blocking and dodging have no effect on whether or not the animation procs... which is why we are having this thread discussion right now.

-Loth

hahaha sorry,i forgot to add,when skyrim first came out i already playing on master difficulty without any mods at all,and this thing keeps repeating...from insta-kill to killed by mobs even when they were staggered and we're behind them...hahaha

the PISE mod just add challenge and the question was about calc damage that might ignored QR perks,armors and attributes...

4 bandits killed me earlier (level 35), all had elven/glass bows and they all pretty much shot at once. Which on master is instant death ha.

hahaha,i guess you have a point there

we'll see then when CK is live and hoped there's a modder out there that taken this thing on consideration,hehe

well,for now i'll just do my best to come up with better tactics and take advantage from my Power instead just using shouts..altho at some point,and i'm sure this is a bug,the action button to attack,block and shout seems to stuck and it won't work until i change weapon,or sheath them or in shout cases,i have to wait 5 seconds eventho my shouts already fully charged and ready to use..LOL

thx a lot man

I'm a modder.

Rest assured... it will be looked into.
-Loth

praise LORD VIVEC!!my prayer has been answered

thx man,i'll definitely looking forward to your mod..good luck mate

What Lothario said above. The insta-kill status and animation can hopefully be done after the damage calculation, rather than before. That way the culprit has to successfully hit and do the damage through your armor/block, whatever. It seems that they made a mistake when they set this up to bypass the normal system.

There are ways to do a sloppy fix, but I think a delay might work best.

Yup. Just change when the engine checks for killmoves. This has actually been simulated by a mod that's out already:

http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2266

Remember the console code I gave you earlier? This mod inserts a script through a third-party extender that activates that console code except for when the player is swinging a weapon. In effect, only the player can make killmoves. It's the best we can do until the CK comes out... and maybe not even then.

-Loth

so it's a trade-off then,but does it mean the player can also bypass the whole system and killmoves will take effect?

hmmmm,so the engine calculate the base damage and everything that normally should take into account,BEFORE,the attack animation takes place and IF the value is somehow supposed to kill us in the next attack then IT bypass everything that we have and proceed with the killmoves..hence,our skills and everything would be useless at this point right?

I see no flaw in OHK's, if you go up against someone wielding a massive weapon that takes TWO FREAKING HANDS just to swing...

Expect to get your shield splintered and your wig split.

well,for me it's quite bothering...example,when we have all the skills we needed to survive your health is above 250,you have high AR and all shield perks you have will be meaningless because the engine might calculate the next attack might kill you and they bypass all this skills you have and the BOOM,we pushing up daisies...

i don't mind at all when the mobs can kill us with 1 one hit kill,but not when we are right behind them while they staggered...or when we have a chance to survive with quick reflex perk...so yeah,i really don't mind if died by my own stupidity or carelessness not paying attention at the surroundings,but not with a "design flaw"..as so i've been told..LOL