Didn't read more than this because it's late and I'm too tired to read a lot of detailed text.
But whatever.

Then why did you use save exploit?
If you jammed the lock then you jammed the lock. Let it stay jammed? :huh:

well technically thats′not a exploit,a exploit is when you use a unintended glitch or bug in a game to cheat, using the in game save/load system is hardly a exploit.

I actually like the lock pick minigame. It adds an element of control to the picking of the locks,

I think part of the RPG experience is to engage yourself into it, and by not exploiting it. lol
You could do the same in Fallout 3.

I got this definition from google: "to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one's own ends"
You take advantage of the save/reload feature until you accomplish what your character is not meant to accomplish.
That is not an exploit?
It's still not the way the game is meant to be played.

I didn't mind lock picking or terminal hacking for quite awhile, but things got ALOT more fun when the http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2917 mod was added and then later integrated with FWE (which I used religously for a long time). That way if I break the lock, I still have a way in with enough explosives and skill. Sometimes I would blow a door or lock just because I was tired of picking and always enjoy a good Boom. I wish they would have added this to New Vegas - it certainly seems like a realistic thing that people would do with all that explosives laying around everywhere, and doesn't violate "Canon" rules of Fallout.

As it is I'm sure the mod will get added into FNV so I'll be good to go at that point - but it would have been neat to have the professionals make a version! :nuke:

well that is the general term of the word exploit, I was talking about a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_%28online_gaming%29...because last time I checked this is a game

Hm, but do you agree or disagree that this is not the way Fallout 1 and 2 were meant to be played? (Using save/reload until you successfully pick a lock)

I don′t see it as a exploit, it′s in the game so I don′t see a "wrong" in using save/load, what′s the use of having a save function if you can′t use it to step back from a mistake, that′s kinda why saving in games where invented (among other things)

This is one of the reasons why I wanted fixed save locations.
Anyway, yeah I just think that one should accept that one is not good enough for some stuff.
That's one part of what roleplaying is about for me, I understand that my character can do something if I use the save/load feature until it works.
But that wouldn't be right.
My character cannot do that certain thing, I understand that and walk away.

Hmm..... I think I'm only going to use Force Lock in New Vegas and let chance decide if I pick it or not.

Saving and loading the moment anything bad happens is generally regarded as a type of exploit, though generally less severe than exploiting a game engine bug. Yes, one reason you can save is so you don't need to start the game over any time something bad happens (like your character's death), but it still lets you exploit a metagame feature in order to do better in the game than you would be if you weren't exploiting that feature - for example, quicksaving every second in combat and then reloading the moment you get hit could be considered an exploit.

In any case, it's also generally well-known that most players will simply reload if anything bad happens to their character (like getting caught stealing or breaking a lock or whatever). This is why many games make these simple pass-fail possibilities instead of including random chance in the equation and some of them actually inform you if you can succeed at all prior to the attempt.

Instead of fixed saves, it could also be solved through timed attempts. If the attempt takes a certain amount (based on skill and difficulty) of time, the save/load "exploit" would be much more of a chore.

If one still crawls through that tedium, s/he sure has earned the reward.

thats just you. Play the game however you want, but don't chastise others for the way they chose to play. for starters, it doesn't effect you in any way. Not to mention you seem to be on a rather far extreme of the spectrum when it comes to gameplay styles. (hardcoe RP as opposed to just "playing the game".) Nothing really wrong with that, not at all, but you saying you want the game to bend to your will is like an extremist from some localized religion going on the news and telling people their ways are wrong and they should repent and bow to the almighty Cthulhu. hehe. Seriously though. Save/Load is not an exploit. "the way a game is meant to be played" is purely conjecture when it comes to actual features of the game.

Perfect example: I love playing with stealth and VATS. My friend is the polar opposite. Iron sights (or whatever you wanna call it in FO3) and run and gun tactics. I was trying to convince him that Stealth is FAR more efficient in terms of damage and tactics, but the fact is, he will play the way he wants to play. The game allows for that. If you don't want to use stealth, who am I to tell you thats the way the game is to be played? who am I to tell you you shouldn't save before taking a risk, so if it fails, you can try again?

As far as lockpicking goes, I'm in favor of the minigame. It's far more convenient. And like it or not, convenience in video games is something a majority of people actually LIKE. Just speaking for myself here, but I much prefer the more "real time" mechanic to the old fallout turn based EVERYTHING, 10 buttons decide what skill you are going to use mechanic. It's just easier for me to get into. streamlined. I highly doubt I'm alone on that. in fact, I would dare say I'm probably with the majority of gamers on that.

I was thinking about that (in a way) just before I logged in... I was wondering to myself if the PC could work on the lock in a continual attempt to open it. (rolling a skill check every 5 seconds) until the player "canceled" the action... and then just advance the game time 5 minutes per each of attempts that he'd made.


With computers this is usually the case, but there are random fortuitous events that can allow things to happen. This is true of manual locks as well.
* I once opened a combination lock to the swimming pool supply shed in our apartment building. I did this blind (because at the time I was about nine years old, and was not tall enough to easily reach the lock, and had to stretch above my head). I twisted the lock at random for about 12 seconds, and it opened. This was a fluke, flukes happen. I opened that lock with only enough skill to turn the nob and pull. This equates to a PC with base skill in locks, actually rolling success.


I would rather automatic save checkpoints, accompanied by the ability to save anywhere at a moderate XP cost (that is deducted in the save).

Its a named exploit, and they call it "baby stepping".

i hated oblivions lockpicking system, i liked FO3 system just fine, it was more like picking a real lock

I was more referring to how the autolock worked, not the minigame itself.

I'm torn between the two, from different points of view,.

If I'm playing an Astrophysist in a RPG, I shouldn't need to know anything about Astrophysics - My Character knows that for me, I just make the decisions. If I'm playing a thief with a high lock pick skill, why should my personal skills and abilities effect my character?

But, as somone else pointed out, pressing 2 and clicking isn't a fun gameplay mechanic. Playing a lockpick minigame is more entertaining.

That's childish and silly.

Fallout 1 and 2 lockpicking was not simply random numbers. It was a formula based on your character's lockpick skill, modified by any appropriate lock picking kits that you had in inventory, your luck stat, and the lock difficulty . Successfully picking a lock was entirely dependent on your character build and the lock difficulty level. The player's skill at minigames had nothing to do with a successful lockpick attempt. And that's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it!

When you allow the player to use their own skill to overcome obstacles the game is no longer an RPG. In a good, true RPG, the character's stats are what matter, not the player's skill at whatever they are doing. This is the main reason I don't like the combat system of Fallout 3 and subsequently, New Vegas. If I could, I'd play the whole game in VATS so its not my skill (or lack thereof) at FPS combat that wins the day, but my character's skill with their equipped weapon. For the record, in the case of New Vegas, I don't fault Obsidian for this. They were given the FO3 engine and construction set and told they had to use those.




My response to such a statement would be that RPGs are probably not for you then.

eh it′s not like it was shoved down there throat, obviously if Obsidian them self (and by effect the old Fallout devs) didn′t like it they could have just turned down the deal and never made F:NV, so obviusly they themself don′t find F3 way to be "wrong".

Why not add both a "Force Lock" and an Oblivion "Auto-Pick" feature?
In Oblivion I picked no lock, not the single 60-hour play through, auto-pick was a godsend.
In F3 I picked every-lock, only used Force-lock once at the beginning of my first-play-through to see what it was exactly.
Auto-pick should be in for those who don't wish to pick locks, and the mini-game should still be there.
Someone just tell me they fixed hacking, please.

I would contend the opposite is true, in oblivion you had tumblers and pins.

What do you mean by 'fixed hacking'? What was broken about it? The whole 'you can restart it all by exiting and reentering the hacking minigame' bit?

I imagine they thought better to compromise with the devil and save as much of their legacy as they can rather than let some other developer do it and watch their legacy become even more distorted and unrecognizable.

Actually, I seem to recall them stating somewhere that they were restricted at times. (from location choices primarily, I think). Also... I only know of one ex Fallout dev at Obsidian (though I do not know all of their employees names and could easily be off by 1). :shrug:

:thumbsup:

...so why are you here if you already made up your mind about clinging to the old games like a old man to the old days?




a quick check in the vault shows all "key people" of Obsidian are people who worked on the old games