I've forwarded this thread to guys at our team, so they can take a look. If I have any news for you guys, I'll let you know.

Sounds good!

Unlike the VATS issues and other bugs which Bethesda have chosen to overlook until now; this crashing on save issue will severely affect a large number of peeps simply because the majority of PC owners will be running mods and mods that affect nonpersistent spawns (mods that affect levelled lists tend to be the most popular).

Thank you VERY much! As it stands, we in the modding community are going to be stuck on this bug.

Hoping for the best!

M

Keep in mind that we don't have official support for The G.E.C.K. -- this is no different than Oblivion or Morrowind. As such, we're not testing new updates against existing mods or accounting for backwards compatibility for mods. Still after the PMs I received, I wanted to pass along your feedback.

Talking with the developers, while not convenient, your best bet is to make new references persistant.

In other news, there is a new update to the GECK available. See details http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=985995.

I didn't think the patches could screw up even worse than before. It's umm... interesting to see that they can always be worse...

Official support for GECK, I understand. But this patch makes us choose between your DLC and user-made ones. I think you know which the vast majority of PC users will choose...

ok?. as quarn mentioned, i found another bug. in rivetcity harkness doesn't have a gun. don't know if this is the patch or not.

Yep right now I have no intention of buying the aptly named "broken" steel, until this patch is fixed.

I understand you don't give official support for the G.E.C.K, but releasing a patch for the pc which breaks most mods is useless. Not many people will use it. If Bethesda expects PC users to patch their game they have to solve this bug. Releasing the next patch with the same problems is useless for the pc as nobody will use it. So I expect Bethesda will look into it and try to solve it.

I say the next patch as I doubt that this will be solved soon. I hope the next patch is already planned and will be available soon, but I guess we have to wait for a will (a few weeks at least).

GECK update! Pwnage!! Yay!

So yeah - - the thing that gets my attention about this issue with 1.5 and persistant refs is this - - - -

The DLC ya'll developed does not use .esp files. They are all based upon .esm.

The patch made a change to how .esp files are being handled by the .exe. It doesn't cause mod conflicts, it causes the game to use .esp files in a new way, and that new way doesn't parallel the way the .exe is handling .esms. And the end result is that mods made in .esp format have problems.

The way those things work together, combined with the fact that it makes .esp files much more limited in practical usability than before, gives me the hunch that it was an unintended side-effect of something that was done elsewhere. And it wouldn't have been caught by QA because that test environment wouldn't naturally include .esps in the load order.

Anyone care to take a guess what they'll break with the next patch? You just know it's going to happen. :rolleyes:

Thanks Bethesda and Gstaff Didnt expect a update to the GECK with you guys and gals being so busy with the upcoming DLC release and all these other game projects coming out of the woodwork. Cheers :foodndrink:


About the save on crashes yes i was getting this too til i did what i mentioned in a previous post about unchecking and checking my mods to see which were making it happen. Fortunately my favorites among the list were playable after removing the conflicting mods. I just hope i dont run into the trapped in Megaton bug Parjay mentioned since i have not been there lately.

Also don't forget that this is also a symptom of the issue:

These screenshots demonstrate a problem with .esp-added NPCs. Moving the NPCs into an .esm resolves the problem.


http://www.finhosting.fi/~fallout/screenshots/RidiculousSkin.jpg

http://www.finhosting.fi/~fallout/screenshots/SupposedToBeBlack.jpg

on the update to geck, when u run it, u use modify?
not repair or uninstall and reinstall, right?

just uninstall and reinstall the latest version.

Hellbishop why are you thanking Bethesda for a patch that breaks some major mods.

Right. Moving foward, you'll want to make new references persistent.

That is not smart at all. If somebody, say, adds a base to the game, every little thing would need to be persistent: trees, rocks, wall, clutter, npcs, everything. Meaning horrible savegame bloat.
Multiply by the number of mods, and you get something unplayable.

Making things persistent is a horrible solution that shouldn't be needed.

A couple of things:

Won't this bloat new savegames so big that they will be unmanagable?

Can you make navmesh a persistent reference?

-edit

Also just thought, what about respawning NPCs? Their corpses are going to be piled up a mile high or will they reset even if persistent?

Gstaff. Shot in the dark here. Is it possible for you to even comment on the VATS lag experienced post 1.0.0.15?


Yikes I just saw this. Persistent references will eventually destroy a saved game if used in this manner.

Wow. Hello massive savegame BLOAT. :banghead:

maybe bethseda wants all mods to be .esm :shocking:

No offense. But do you guys have any idea of what you are doing? Maybe you do and I am not sure that I like the answer......... :sadvaultboy:


And how does THAT work? :facepalm:

So does this mean all the previously built mods have to be redone? Surely you can't mean that?

They know exactly what they are doing. They just proved that they don't give 2 [censored] about modders. Well, screw you Bethesda! I'm getting the Fake Patch.

That's EXACTLY what he means.......