I am not the type to build multiple characters for several different builds - which I may have to become. I have one character, a mage - who among destroying towns likes to grow as a human being. I was focusing for the first 14 levels on things like destruction and alchemy with the occasional point in conjuration. But now as I continue playing - I put a point into enchantment, but I also want to start wearing light armour instead of robes all the time, and maybe use a single handed sword with my staff.

I also want to craft weapons and armour to sell to make a living (even though destroying a town gave me like 20k+) - money is of no issue

There are lots of routes I want to go, I don't want to fill a whole tree but parts of it - for example with destruction, ya I want it all, with alchemy I want green thumb and with conjuration I am kind of torn between soul bound and summoning, so I am taking a bit of both, more summoning thing soul bound.

What are your guys thoughts?

As long as you don't try to be a jack of all trades, there are plenty of perks. That's why I have 5 characters of all different play styles. If you would max everything, there would be no reason to have more than one character unless you put every point into stamina/health and then wanted to be a Mage.

I say give it a shot doing multiple playthroughs. With your mage stick to the College of Winterhold, maybe DB if your character wants to (doesn't seem to mind killing people), then role with another character who focuses on smiting for a living while using two handed weapons+heavy armor. Multiple characters really extends the life of the game. I made the mistake of trying to do every possible thing with my first character and it just isn't as enjoyable.

Having restarted my game, I've come to realize there's a huge downside to the perks system: you can't have your cake and eat it too. In my last game, I applied every single perk into archery and sneak, which gave me an advantage of rushing through dungeons, but I started stalling at the high 30s on figuring out what perks to do.

At this stage, menial perks do nothing for a character who doesn't need to craft their own potions, make stuff, or shoot fireballs at crabs, one of the few low-level creatures an undeveloped magicka wielder can take out.

I can't really offer any advice to help out, considering I'm in the same boat with my current game (which I'm now applying perks across the board).

This has made my game... interesting, to say the least.

I'll just have to wait and see what happens at level 20, when the level ratios start skewing themselves all over Skyrim (and my chances at beating those crabs is 10:1).

:/ there are plenty of levels, you are supposed to specialize your character.

Pure warrior
Pure mage
Pure sneak
Warrior/mage
Warrior/sneak
Sneak/mage

Warrior/mage/sneak doesn't work because it is not supposed to.

This is not like other RPG games where the point of the game is to level up. You level up until you get all the perks that your specific character is built for, then you stop.

In Morrowind my characters retired at about level 35. Same in Oblivion. You should be thanking them for adding content up into the 50's

The point of skyrim is to have an adventure, experience a story of your own design. Go out and explore. Make enemies and friends.

The game is specifically designed where you cannot do everything in one playthrough, adding enough levels to the game to make a character who is master of everything doesn't even make sense in this game.

@Salacious (OP)
I agree. I'm at the point where about 7-8 perks I want are about to open up with only 1-5 skill ups in the relevant skills. It makes it really hard to choose, and makes it tempting to save points for something else, when at the same time something good is open NOW.

I understand not wanting to playthrough multiple times, but there are at least 2 (3 maybe) major playthroughs you can do. (Also note there are approximately 3 playthroughs worth of perk points, 80 perks/game = 240 perks, compared to 251 total)

1. Side with the Empire.
2. Side with the Stormcloaks.
3. Stay neutral and get them to sign a treaty.

Additionally, sticking with Magic and doing College of Winterhold on one character, another to focus on the Companions quests, and a third to do the Thieves/Brotherhood quests. You don't have to have cut and dry classes either. I'm playing a Stealthy Mage (who hasn't decided whether they're going to do Light Armor, or Alteration for Mage Armor perks yet), that uses Illusion, Destruction, Sneak, and Conjuration as my main skills, while focusing on Enchanting as my crafting skill. (Restoration is used as well as necessary). Sure I don't get sneak attacks, but launching several fireballs down a hallway, and having the exploded room full of bandits going "What was that?" "Did you hear something?" and still not being discovered for 5-10 seconds is good fun. Don't bring a follower who wears heavy armor and doesn't sneak though. Damn Lydia has ruined so many good set ups. Additionally, Stealth casting Fury spells works nearly EVERY time. Especially if you change position from where you cast it.

Also, if you like certain skills a lot, you can overlap them, (Eg, why I have a Stealthy Mage, and my "Rogue" type character will use Illusion) while if you don't like a skill much (or it's perks.. see lockpicking for me) you can avoid it. Trying both types of armor (and no armor) also could be worth it.

@Calvin65
Being a jack of all trades (perks in all three trees) can be fun and rewarding if built right. Example Conjuration (Weapons and Summon helpers), Restoration, Block, One Handed, Archery, Light Armor, Sneak. You get a taste of everything, and can become pretty powerful. Choose either Smithing or Enchanting to tag on and do even better (replacing your conjured weapons with smithed/enchanted ones). Add in Illusion to almost any build for a fun way to deal with difficult solutions.

@ErikWithNoC
Agreed. I'm avoiding Companions on my Stealth Mage, and will Stick to the College and MAYBE Thieve's Guild, and side with the Stormcloaks. This character is not very evil though, and will definitely Avoid/Destroy the Brotherhood, but may give thieving a try. My Warriorish guy, OTH will side with the Legion, do Companions missions, etc..

Makes for several playthroughs that overlap as little as possible.

@Mesonoxian Eve
I like to perk things as they come up for this purpose. Instead of filling a tree, I use as many skills as equally as possible to keep them balanced, and none of them so overpowered, that perking one or the other is gamebreaking/useless. Granted I am focusing on my Mage right now. Mostly perking Illusion, and Destruction, but I have points in Restoration, Enchanting, Sneak, and Conjuration as well to keep them level relevant.

@Chronicler of Legends
Warrior/Mage/Thief CAN work. Check my reply to Calvin65. You just can't have as much diversity in each tree, but you make up for it in skill diversity. A sneaking warrior with the ability to conjure and heal, or pick enemies off at a distance can work just fine. Add in Illusion and you will be unlikely to have any problems with anything. In fact, after laying out that build I'm *EXTREMELY* tempted to start a character just like that!

Edit: Worth mentioning as well, is that many skills do not NEED perks to be useful or viable. Pickpocketing, Lockpicking, Speech and Alchemy are all good examples. Armors can technically go unperked as well and still be functional.

I find it hard to see value in replaying the two 'main' quest lines as I'm really given no choices along the way.

(I'm too much of a fo banboy I guess.)

I never manage to specialize my characters. There are penalties to being a generalist but that just adds to the challenge.
Are you on PC, OP? If so, check our the "Perk Books" mod on the Nexus.

you misunderstand me, as this thread is about adding more levels to max out a character.

Warrior/mege/sneak works for a jack of all trades because the tradeoff of doing a little of everything is you can never master it. You spread yourself too thin at higher levels, rather than specializing in order to get all the perks for your build.

What I was meaning to say is if you are going to play jack of all trades, the neccesary tradeoff is that you cannot get all perks, as the OP is requesting.


And complaining about not doing multiple characters becase you do not want to do the main quest again?

Here is an Idea, make a new character and do not do the main quest...

I actually prefer doing as much as I can in one playthrough, if it makes sense for the character. I don't have the time to make four or five level 50 characters.

If I wanted to I could just look at it as my character wants as much money and power as possible, rising in the ranks of all the factions in Skyrim.

My character stumbled upon being the Dragonborn, it was obviously his destiny. He was new area and didn't know anyone, so he joined the companions to gain connections in the area. Being naturally competent in Illusion and Conjuration, he joined the college to further his knowledge.

With their distaste for elves and Talos, I would go against the Stormcloaks to fight for the empire, me being a wood elf and all.

Me being a collector of rare items, I have no problem exploring the daedric quests bringing back weapons from oblivion.

Having an inherent knack for stealing and stealth, he tried out some petty thieving in the thieves guild. He liked the people and the pay, so he progressed through.

Eventually thieving just won't do it for him anymore, at which point he will join the brotherhood to quench his thirst for blood.


I could go into a lot more detail and there's way more to it. I prefer to do as much as I can on one character because I don't really have the time to do multiple ones. I've had the game since release and am level 36, with zero questlines completed. I'm just now finishing up my daedric quests and parts of the companions and thieves guild.

The point I'm trying to say is that it's possible to "legitimize" doing everything on one character.

I play this game like real life, for example in real life I am a software developer/web designer/application developer and for fun I garden, shop and party

If I played life like skyrim I would be a smither, alchemist and speech that's no fun, I want to experience life in the game. you are a person in a world. you should be able to be bored of spells and start swinging a sword. maybe your RP takes you down the path of archery and half way through you become a summoning mage or a preist. or maybe because i like killing people I settle down and become a monk. to amend for my crimes

See what i mean?

note I am pc and plan to play vanilla

Specialize meaning limit. I love limiting. Limiting things always make them better.

This. I like one character. Why should people like us be punished because we don't start a different character every week?

You are not being punished for trying to do everything with one character. It just is not the way the progression system works. In elder scrolls there has always been a choice to what you specialize in.

If you want to be a jack of all trades, the very definition of that is "proficient at everything, master of nothing"

The elder scrolls games have always had you think about the character you are trying to make, rather than just doing everything.

No offense, but this game is not meant for people who want to do absolutely everything in one playthrough... The way many RPGs are

Rpg games like fable? Max out everything and be godlike.

Elder scrolls is much closer to a dungeons and dragons type RPG where careful character planning is important. That is part of the challenge that makes the game great to many people.

Why is everyone suddenly talking as if Skyrim is some tale of lore in their life and a should represent a segment of their bloody identity? Getting back to the real purpose of the post...

I like the fact that there is a limit, hesitating back and forth and back and forth to different perks completely crapping myself thinking "Do i need this RIGHT now or could i survive another level without it?" is the best thing especially knowing that the closer i reach level 80 the more difficult the decision will be. I currently have 2 characters on VERY different ends of the spectrum - one is typical Khajit sneak thief specialising in daggers and alchemy and my other is a war Orc with focus on brutal sword executions, blocking and enchanting.

This, that concern whether you are making the right choice is very important to the gameplay.


I know it is a competitive game and many people do not like it but let me make an example of dark souls:

Every time you level up, it gets harder and harder to level up again. This makes your choice of leveling up stats incredibely important. If you stick everythig into health at the start, you will not be able to get good magic until MUCH later.

I love this system, it makes you really think about how to build your character... And if the system wasnt in place much of the strategy in dark souls would be absolutely ruined.

Skyrim is less extreme, but it is left like that for rhose of us who actually enjoy planning out our characters.

Actually, if your build is Warrior/Mage/Thief you CAN master it. You just can't pick up all perks for all schools of each. For example, some people play a lot of sports, some do a lot of creative work like art and poetry or writing, and some focus on technical skills like coding and computers. Comparing the the above example, you can be awesome at Basketball, Drawing, and Programming, but it's more unlikely that you'll have extensive knowledge of every sport, for instance. So no, you are not a master of "sports", but you could easily be a master of Basketball, and have additional skills. Just because a build does not use all skills from a specialization, does not mean it cannot be mastered. The fact that many skills are redundant and overlap each other should be noted as well. Not much reason to go both Heavy and Light armor for instance, or both Two handed and one handed/shield. Alteration isn't as useful if you already have armor also. Usually you don't need all of Destruction, Archery and either One handed/Two handed combat.

Doing a little of everything and doing it well can make you highly effective, especially for skills that sync well together, like the build I posted. Sneak, Illusion and Archery go great together. Sneak, Light Armor and One-Handed as well. One handed, Block and Light Armor work well together. Conjuration and Archery have excellent synergy. Restoration can be useful in almost any build. Illusion and Conjuration are a good combo, especially with Sneak. This isn't even the only example, there are others that can work, and others that may suit someone's play style much better.

The core for each specialization is:
Warriors: Choose a Weapon Skill, Block if using 1H, Choose an Armor Skill, Smithing, Optional: Archery
Mages: Destruction Magic, At least one Support Magic, Restoration, Enchanting, Optional: More support magic.
Thieves: Sneak, Archery/1H or both, Light Armor, Pickpocket, Alchemy, Optional: Lockpicking

Considering the Hybrid build can easily have 3 from each Core, it's less so "Jack of all Trades, but master of none" and more like "Jack of All Trades, Master of a select few". (Keep in mind, I understand what you mean that you are not a FULL Warrior, and FULL Mage, and FULL Thief, but who's to say you can't be skilled at all three, and a Master of them working together).



Considering you CAN do everything on one character (except for choice related quests, in which you only need a second playthrough for), I don't see how this is a problem. You can pick up other skills later in your characters adventure/life, but you won't be nearly as effective with it, and rightfully so. Think of perks as an intense dedication spent on honing that particular aspect of the skill. By all means you can be great at every skill (all 100), but to truly specialize or devote yourself to become Amazing, a true master, at a select few skills requires more time and effort (represented by perks).

I think this is a good system. Personally, I got bored of having a character in Oblivion who could literally do anything at maximum power just because I felt like levelling my Blunt and Block skills randomly, cause I was a tired of burning things to death.

Also, with what I've bolded, that stands out to me as a reason to specialize, even slightly. By that level you could be done a few quest lines if you focused. Additionally, what you describe is exactly the same as what a lot of people do, by creating a new character and switching between them. Many people play with a set "character" and "personality". To many it doesn't make sense to side with the Empire, then complete the Brotherhood quests, or to take their previously helpful and good character, and start slaughtering innocents or stealing from them as a result of various quests. The same goes for the opposite.

Why would someone who has only known heavy armor and a two handed axe, suddenly decide to pick up a flames tome, and become a master in magic overnight?


That is true, but would you not still retain all the knowledge and skills you had acquired previously? Learning your new way of life would be challenging and limited, especially if you devoted most of your life (see 80 perk points) to something entirely different. In real life, learning new skills is balanced by losing skill, and proficiency in older things you have learned. This is not the case of Skyrim.


As said before, to experience most of the content, you need 2 playthroughs. In many games, you pick a class and stick with it. It is usually 1/3 or 1/5 of the total character Aspects, and is usually SET for the whole game. Skyrim and TES games give unlimited customization of "classes", but as such, they need to limit how many skills you can be a master of.

Also, no one is punishing you. If you want to do everything, DO IT. Nothing is stopping you from being a Companion/Archmage/Thieve's Guild Member/Dark Brotherhood person. You can play through every quest you want. But as mentioned before, for the FULL experience of each character archetype, you have to try different characters. Just like nearly every other game.


I agree with everything here except your Jack of All Trades argument which I addressed earlier in this post. Well thought out statements all the same though.


I like that too.. Currently stuck between what I should spend a couple perks on.. More sneaking skills? Should I start using Light Armor? If so, should I grab Smithing? Should I grab Alteration perks? Or pump more into Illusion/Conjuration/Destruction? It can be frustrating on what you should pick, but only because most of the perks are awesome. In fact so awesome that I want to play multiple characters just to experience them all.

My character's level 41 and, somewhat belatedly, I've realised that her skill 'interests' are just spread waaay too thin - Alchemy, Conjuration, Destruction, Restoration, Light Armour, Sneak, Archery (what can I say? Ranges stealth kill animations are just too addictive to say no to archery!), Enchantment, Smithing. Like a lot of the posters here, I just wanted to experience everything the game had to offer. But, for the first time with an Elder Scrolls game, I'm thinking of starting a fresh character and being a bit more focused and disciplined in the skills I choose to take perks in. I'll still stick with my main - at least till she finishes the main quest (and I'm some way off that) - but it is something the game forces you to think about.

And that's not a bad thing, really - at least those high-level fights are not too easy!

JDD

I'm doing just about everything and I'm not a jack of all trades. I guess you could intentionally gimp yourself and only master one skill, but I will soon be a master in Archery, Illusion and Conjuration. I also carefully planned my 80 perks out.

I'm a master of many.

Let me clarify: when I said master of everything I ment getting every single perk in the game, which is impossible.

I realise you can master multiple perk trees, but you cannot get every single perk in every single tree without multiple playthroughs. Which is the way many people prefer it.

Yes, that's the way I'm feeling at the moment. And the perk trees in themselves are nicely versatile - my character's much more interested in the restorative side of the Alchemy tree than the poison side, for example. Choices! Choices! (Which, surely, is what a role-playing game should be about...)

JDD

i've made a sneak mage and its working well for me so far O.o

In addition, me being level 36 with zero questlines completed was a choice. It had nothing to do with specializing or not. To be honest, I'm sure my build is similar to many people's.

Archery tree maxed out
Illusion tree maxed out
The necromancy part of the conjuration tree
The light armor side of smithing
All of the enchanting tree besides the recharge perks
Enough in the sneak tree for 3.0x bow sneak damage
Plus most, if not all of the light armor tree

My character "specializes" in archery with conjuration and illusion as backup.

Choosing to get my fill of an abundance of sidequests before tackling anything major was just a choice but had nothing to do with my build, I guess that's what I was trying to say.

That was supposed to be warrior/sneak/mage
As in taking every perk in the game.

Of course sneak mage works, I have played it myself.

You can add perk points to both PC and Xbox