What is Voice of the Emperor?

And OK, well they said that The Voice is still different from Dragonshouts... Dragonshouts are just a subtype of The Voice which can be used only by Dragonborns.
And yea well it's quite stupid of Uriel VII to know no self defense - especially as a Dragonborn Hahaha what an ignorant Emperor, thinks he could survive the first 3 games and therefore the 4ths as well :banghead: :facepalm:

And maybe you are correct about not being able to do it because they became Dragonborn only when crowned Emperor. If I'm not mistaken the myth says there can only be one Dragonborn at a time but still not why the Emperor didn't use them, and that brings me once again to the conclusion made in the paragraph above this one :mage:

That USEP makes no distinction between Thu'um and Dragonshouts, however http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dragon_Shouts UESP says their the same thing.

The Emperors had no time to really stop and devote years in study to learn the Voice when they had an Empire to run, one that was usually in a constant state of upheavel and conflict. He had an entire army of super guards who were supposed to know everything, it was the Blades job to make sure he was to never be touched.

edit: I'm also not really convinced the Emperors became Dragonborn by becoming Emperor., and theirs no myth saying there can only be one Dragoborn at a time.

http://imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-book-dragonborn

[edit] Made a http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1258372-book-of-the-dragonborn/ for the book, since it's pretty damn important.

So an order dedicated to Talos and his heirs says that they were all Dragonborn makes it true? As much propaganda that's come out of Septim's Empire I'm inclined to take what a biased author says as fact. The book makes the assumption that "if they can X they must be Dragonborn", trying to reason previous holes in the Imperial Ideology that comes off more so as propaganda and politicing rather than divine right and blessing.

Makes sense though. Only Martin could wear the Amulet of Kings, the Amulet was not bound to blood, we can see this clearly because the rulers during the first second or third era empire had no blood relations to each other. Martin could wear the amulet not because he was related to the first wearer of the Amulet of Kings, Alessia, but because he was dragon blood. Whether or not he was actually Dragon born or not, I don't know. It is entirely possible that all descendants of the Emperor Tiber Septim were Dragon born, or perhaps they became so when crowned.

More relevant to the question asked in the first post however, learning the voice takes many, many years. It's a long hard process and even then some don't master it. It's easier for the Dragon born if they take in souls but if they don't then they still have to learn the hard way. Meaning quite simply that all of the Emperors from Tiber Septim and up had to learn it the hard way, because there were no dragons to kill for them, and that would have taken them years and years and years, which quite frankly they needed to spend on more important things like governing an Empire.

Yea now after visiting High Hrothgar I understood, you can learn the shout pretty quickly by reading the word and then absorbing a Dragon's soul but otherwise you have to live alone up there and meditate and stuff like that, so it obviously takes many years.

Although having a Greybeard body guard would have been amazing

I'd say the Septims were a line of Dragonborn more based on the fact that the prophecy of Alduin's Wall refers to them as such.

Why is this debate going on in here? Thu'um = The Voice = Dragon Shouts. The Dovahkiin is not distinguished by his ability to use them but rather by the fact that he is literally able to learn in minutes what it took the Greybeards their entire lives to do. As one of the dialogue choices you get after learning Whirlwind Sprint states, he/she has no idea how he/she does it, simply doing it. It's as natural as breathing, like it is for the dragons. The Dovahkiin needs only look at a Word of Power to understand it, and steals the power to speak the Word from the dragons he/she slays.

For everyone else? You can learn it, but it takes years to even start doing so.

My understanding is that thu'um is something you learn through long years of study (Greybeards, and I assume Ulfric). The Dragonborn, however, learns far more quickly by assimilating the dragon-language (which is what thu'um is said/projected in) in an almost magical way - represented by the light going into your body - "eating the soul" is, in terms of thu'um, absorbing their knowledge. The Greybeards also give you their knowledge of the thu'um (Fus Ro Dah et al) at High Hrothgar (the light going from them into you). Thus to be Dragonborn is to gain the power of the thu'um at an almost unnatural rate.

Uriel Septim VII and Martin Septim did not likely have access to people with knowledge of thu'um or at least people who could share it as the Greybeards do with the Dragonborn. Rest assured, if they had had someone to train them they would have advanced as rapidly as the Dragonborn.

Edit: Oops, someone already said that. :blush:

I agree with the two posts above. Even with Ulfric, he probably only knows one shout and who knows how long it took him to learn it. Most of the Emperors, all the way down to Martin Septim 'were' related to Tiber Septim. Of course, by the time it was down to Martin, that blood line was pretty diluted. The only emperor I can think of who wasn't related to Tiber Septim was Uriel Septim III who wasn't even a true Septim. He just took the name to try to get some legitimacy to the throne, although his rule didn't last very long.

Just ask the greybeards, do you ever read quest texts?

Well, who's to say Martin DIDN'T use the shouts at the end of Oblivion? Remember that big show you watched where he (in dragon form) spewed white fire out of his mouth? Since your character isn't Dragonborn, you wouldn't hear a Dragon Shout, just a loud roar.

Lets get this straight,

Dragon Speak is something anyone can learn, to shout is a projection of this speech, normally it takes a long time to learn but anyone has the potential to learn one or more shouts. Being Dragon Born means you have an innate ability to understand dragon speak and to shout. The idea behind absorbing souls is that you are actually absorbing knowledge which allows you to unlock more potential. So you learn a word from a wall, this allows you to speak it. Normal people then spend years learning how to project this word in the form of a shout. The Dragonborn however needs only to learn the word and kill a dragon, by killing a dragon he can use the knowledge gained by devouring the soul to understand how to project a given word.

Martin and the others where not Dragon Born, they where Dragon Blood, that is born in the line of Tiber Septim. My understanding is that Dragon Blood is simply propaganda and does not mean anything more than to lay claim to the imperial throne. As for wearing the Amulet of Kings, there are varying degrees of complications around this due to the fact that people like Mankor Camoran and possible Jager Tharn wore the amulet, not to mention that the true line of Talos died with his soon Pelagius...

I would imagine that, like magic, the emperors were far too busy to bust their arses trying to learn to shout one or two words (quite possibly with little effect too).

Also even if Martin was Dragon Born he would have still needed to learn to shout like Ulfirc as their were no Dragons, and since the Greybeards tend not to meddle in the affairs of others, he would not have been brought to their attention.

No no... Martin and all the Septim line were Dragonborns :/


But it's fine, Martin obviously didn't know he was one as he had no idea he was the emperor's bastard son, and Uriel VII didn't have any dragons to kill to absorb their soul and learn the shout quickly, he obviously couldn't just ditch the Empire and go meditate in High Hrothgaar for a decade or two or three to learn Thu'um :/ However, as we saw the Graybeards can actually teach you shouts and pass you their knowledge of it :S

They never took the time to learn the shouts, didn't have word walls/teachers to get the words from, so even if they could (and they could) they weren't able to.

There is no proof that any of the previous rulers were dragon born, Reman Cyrodill may have been proclaimed as such by the Akaviri dragon guard but there is no proof that he was. The only one who displayed the powers of a dragon born was Tiber Septim, who (regardless of which person he actually was, talos, wulfharth, et al) was trained and confirmed by the grey beards.

There may have been emperors that were legitimately dragon born but I would wager most were only dragon blood, which is ceremonial only and allows them to give weight to their legitimacy.

Ceremonial in the sense that they can wear the Amulet of Kings, where others cannot.

It is unconfirmed if this is the real reason for being able to wear the amulet as Manker Camoran and possibly Jager Tharn could wear it.

i think the ending of 4 was essentially a shout of some sort. I don't see why a shout couldn't change the form of the shouter. And it doesn't make sense to say that it was simply an intervention by Akatosh -- there isn't much to suggest that such a thing would happen without him being called. So my theory is that Akatosh was called forward with the shout and thus kills Marunes. So I think you have to consider that shouts can have some effect on the Shouter as well as the rest of the world around him. if an untrained Dovah can run at blinding speed, certainly they could call a dragon.

Could be a shout, though it makes no sense for him to have it. The Dovahikin has to learn shouts via absorbing Dragon souls and learning words, Martin has never slayed a dragon nor learned the Draconic language therefore theres no reason to think he used a Dragon Shout. Via Imperial Lore, it makes perfect sense for an intervention of Akatosh, he's sworn to protect the Empire via his deal with Alessia and bound to it through blood of the Amulet of Kings ( <_< ) so theres plenty of past lore to suggest that he would come in during the Empires greatest need, which would to me means the end of the Septim line and the Dragonborn's whom he had the arranged deal with. Also note, Dagon was not killed, his avatar simply banished.

Final words, only to strengthen my first point, Martin while he could learn to use a Dragonshout, had neither the opportunity nor prior knowledge to use one. The PC in Skyrim doens't start out fresh of the chopping block shouting FUS RO DAH! left and right now does he? He has to learn a word first.

This.

If they wanted to learn it without taking the knowledge from a dragon, which were nowhere to be found at the time, they'd have to do it the old fashion way, which is a life long commitment of studying. They have more important things to do.... like running an empire.

It could be, but at the same time, the Blades were masters of Dragon-lore, and it is possible for someone to learn a shout given enough time for study. Considering that he spent a lot of time with the blades and getting information from them, and that Ulfric uses a shout without a dragon-soul or dragon blood, it's not impossible for such a thing to have happened for someone who is dragonborn. Actually dragon-born do have an inborn dragon-soul anyway (that's why they're dragon-born) so provided that the thu'um is weak enough it's possible.

Unless somebody gifts their knowledge to you.

Martin was ignorant of both his Imperial lineage and the only time he spent with the blades was during the mainquest which didn't take long at all to complete. Martin dealing with being the last of the Septim Dynasty and the Empire falling apart I have no doubt his time was not spent learning ancient dragon shouts. Absolutely nothing saying you can't believe this, but if were talking about likelyhood I'd say its a vast stretch when theres already a preexisting deal with Akatosh that would invoke his intervention. In the case of Ulfric, he's a Jarl and has livied in Skyrim his whole life, with plenty of time to devote to study and learning of the Thu'um, I would have greater expectations for him knowing the shouts more than I would any of the Emperors.